A "Language Universal" Found?

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A "Language Universal" Found?

Postby Lance » Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:03 am

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Re: A "Language Universal" Found?

Postby Enzo » Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:19 am

I find language interesting as well, but sometimes in the quest to find some universal element, it seems we water down the concept to the point it doesn;t say much. I mean words that relate to one another closer together? Sure, why not.
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Re: A "Language Universal" Found?

Postby Lance » Sun Mar 05, 2017 3:52 pm

I wonder how English got so messed up, when compared to the structure of other languages.
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Re: A "Language Universal" Found?

Postby Lianachan » Sun Mar 05, 2017 6:12 pm

Lance wrote:I wonder how English got so messed up, when compared to the structure of other languages.

Bloody immigrants.
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Re: A "Language Universal" Found?

Postby Enzo » Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:50 pm

We are a nation of immigrants so we take elements from a variety of languages as we need them. Even back across the pond there have been various influences from across the channel.

I see our mess as mostly in the vocabulary, yes/no? Basic grammar never seemed all that esoteric to me. I mean we just learn words, it isn't organized into first, second, and third declensions. We don't have to learn genitive and dative.

But then there are things like the subbjunctive, as it were, that we could do without unless being fancy.

HArd to look at it from an outsideres perspective.
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Re: A "Language Universal" Found?

Postby tubeswell » Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:41 pm

"Universal' in what sense?

All known human languages are part of the big family tree of 'human language' so to speak. Languages develop and evolve within the various respective human cultures that nurture them. Languages live while the cultures that nurture them survive. The meaning, syntax, grammar, semantics etc of any language, are continually being negotiated amongst the living users of language.

Therefore, 'language universal' (if such a thing exists) must be derived from 'culture universal'.

Prompting the question; which culture is more 'universal'? A culture that is, for the time being, the 'dominant culture'? A culture in which the meaning of reality, and of language, is never discussed?

This cannot be. Language is a medium through which meaning is continually apprehended and negotiated amongst its' users. These users change as time changes. Therefore there can never be a 'language universal'. The meaning in such a language would be limitless and would be the same for all time. Such boundless meaning would be just as likely to be confused as agreed upon by individual users. It would be everything and nothing. A nonsensical paradox.
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Re: A "Language Universal" Found?

Postby Lance » Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:40 pm

That's the point; wondering if there is a physiological component to language.
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Re: A "Language Universal" Found?

Postby Enzo » Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:54 am

"The language gene"
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Re: A "Language Universal" Found?

Postby tubeswell » Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:49 am

Well sure, in as much as the species behaviour of any species is determined by the environment (including culture) in which the species has evolved.

I would argue that verbal/symbolic language is inherent human species behaviour. Our brains have evolved over millennia to be adapted to learn and use language to an incredibly sophisticated extent. Just like fish have evolved to move, breathe, eat, communicate and reproduce etc, in water. Here we sit, discussing the implications of language and behaviour, on a computer forum, that works by very specific language etc, whilst 'conversing' in a written language derived from the english language lexicon (but adapted with subsequent cultural influences, such as 'American English' etc, where one can use "Australian English' (or whatever-english) keyboard settings, and even get the exogenous cultural jokes (scots, german etc) about 'english', or we can use 'google translate' or wikipedia etc if we don't get it.
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Re: A "Language Universal" Found?

Postby Lianachan » Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:42 am

Enzo wrote:We are a nation of immigrants so we take elements from a variety of languages as we need them. Even back across the pond there have been various influences from across the channel.


Indeed, that was entirely my point - English is a completely imported, foreign language (even in England), which has had constant influence from all parts of the globe. I just phrased it how the Daily Mail might have.
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