Debunking 9/11 hoax

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Then there's that stupid, stupid claim that a missile hit the Pentagon, and not a plane.

Assuming for the moment that the whole thing was staged, everyone knows damn well that if your "plan" calls for a 757 to hit the Pentagon... you use a 757.

But then, inconsistencies are the foundation of these sorts of conspiracies. The HB's create them because they don't understand the details, then they project them onto "the establishment" as proof, implying that the "masterminds" of these events were somehow so inept in the execution of "their plan" that any uneducated fool could see right through it.

Basically, it comes down to having to be ignorant about the topic to believe the conspiracy, because, as we all know, actually having and displaying detailed knowledge about the subject means that you're a shill for the government...

[Bill EE]

And some people think the Government is so smart and so good that they can pull together this giant conspriacy but they forgot to take one of the planes out of service and it is flying around with original tail number. Of course no one has a picture but someone says they saw it and that is good enough.

[neocracker]

I'm continually amazed at how many people are sure they know exactly what should happen when a jet airplane hits a skyscraper.

This is a sore spot with me, too - one of my brother's best friends was on the plane that hit the Pentagon. He and his wife are now helping take care of his widow and her daughter.

Sore point with me for roughly the same reason.

My best friend knew three people on Flight 77 - two flight attendants and the Captain. My friend is a flight attendant for AA and was based out of DC.

[PhantomWolf]

If anyone wants to help out on the Controlled Demotion thread on GLP then it'd be great. While I'm happy on the physics, chemistry and much of the engineering side of things, I really don't have the experience or knowledge about all the 9/11 claims to debunk stories about what happened to this person or that one.

[twinstead]

If anyone wants to help out on the Controlled Demotion thread on GLP then it'd be great. While I'm happy on the physics, chemistry and much of the engineering side of things, I really don't have the experience or knowledge about all the 9/11 claims to debunk stories about what happened to this person or that one.

I just read the thread. Excellent bunch of posts, PhantomWolf!

[twinstead]

LOL IDW has made his grand entrance in the thread:

It was falsly stated on the first page of this thread that every engineer would have to be wrong if 9/11 was a controlled demolition.
I am an engineer who graduated in the top 1 percent of my class, and I don´t believe it was anything other than a profesional emplosion demolition planned carefully months in advance to coincide with a false "terror attack" . I know of many others who are qualified to make an educated conclusion who think it´s a crazy to believe the crashes caused the total collapse of the WTC towers into thier own footprints, doing very little collateral damages considering thier hiegth.
There is simply no way a building 1/4 of a mile long could be brought down withen it´s own footprint without careful, skillful planning.

[Lance]

I am an engineer who graduated in the top 1 percent of my class...

emplosion

Any questions?

[Bob B.]

If IDW is an engineer, then I'm the the Pope. In the 100+ page moon hoax thread a couple months back, IDW said some of the most idiotic non-engineer nonsense I've ever heard.

There is simply no way a building 1/4 of a mile long could be brought down withen it´s own footprint without careful, skillful planning.

Within its own footprint? LOL! There was debris all over the WTC complex.

[Lance]

Pope Bob B.

[twinstead]

If IDW is an engineer, then I'm the the Pope. In the 100+ page moon hoax thread a couple months back, IDW said some of the most idiotic non-engineer nonsense I've ever heard.

There is simply no way a building 1/4 of a mile long could be brought down withen it´s own footprint without careful, skillful planning.

Within its own footprint? LOL! There was debris all over the WTC complex.

I would imagine that it would have probably been impossible to bring it down within its own footprint even with careful, skillful planning.

[Bill EE]

I just saw that from IDW and I was hoping to be the first one to bring it up. Damn - I have got to work less and post more

I can not believe he had the balls to say that. There is some castrated brass monkey wondering around somewhere near where that asshole lives.

[Bob B.]

Hi, Bill. I don't think I've chatted with you since our last encounter with IDW in the moon hoax thread. How's it going?

IDW is disgusting. Being ignorant is one thing, but being a bald-faced liar is inexcusable. IDW has less skill and knowledge than a first-year engineering student.

[twinstead]

I was so flabbergasted that I forgot to log in when I posted my first reaction to his post. I'm sure you can tell which one, the one just following his, was mine :wink:

EDIT: for spelling

[Bill EE]

Hi Bob B. - I have not been able to spend a lot of time here (or at GLP). Have been really busy. Our project is FINALLY getting some press and I have travel around a lot. Got to build some fire so I am fuelling the pyro in me.

IDW doesn't have an AS degree as far as I can tell. My favorite is that "Noise Figure" is not a technical term but a slang term. Jeeze - I have been designing and modeling communication systems long enough to know when someone is full of BS.

[frenat]

Could you post the link to this thread again. I'd like to check in on it.

Edit
Nevemind, I found it.

[frenat]

Not on that thread but on many others I see people claiming 9/11 must have been an inside job because the patriot act was brought out so quickly afterwards and there is no way the very large document could have been written so quickly. I mentioned this to my wife and the first thing she said was "like there's not a zillion legal aides in DC". Do these people really think one person sat down and wrote it all?

[Bill EE]

One Asshole on GLP wrote:

The biggest blow to the "intense fire" bringing the buildings down was the woman standing in the opening leaning against the steel that was so hot to have caused structural failure. She had long hair without a singe mark on her. If the metal was hot enough to cause failure she would not be able to stand near it let alone lean on it.

I want to know what video shows this detail from 80 stories way?

Stupidity - GLP Trademark

[frenat]

There are videos that show people standing in the holes left by the plane but not with enough detail to say they didn't have any singe marks. Apparently it is inconceivable to these people that the fire might have moved to a different part of the building after consuming the material in that area.

[I Am He]

Here is a snippet of a reply I got from 'Scienceonly': "I am as level-headed as they come. I am a conspiracy theororist, and a damn good one if I do say so myself." This guy thinks he is some kind of Pro on the subject 9/11, and Boy is this guy off base. He ran away as soon as I called him a lunatic. Another Woo Woo is this 'OMEGA' guy. He sure can BS about how the evil Gov blew up the WTC, but can only answer back with Ad Hominem replys. He also ran away.

[A-hole]

Oh those were very real planes with very real people on them.
They really died on-site a loss we will feel the rest of our lives.

That being said I Hate to be an A-hole here, but.........
I've come to believe a few in government let it happen.
All these other outlandish claims are a smoke screen.
Meant to discount any questions put forth regarding the "Offical Story".
There are many including inactions both by the pres, and his security detail.
Their actions since that day haven't help quell the concerns.

[Bill EE]

You know A-hole, I lost a friend on one of those planes and, given that, I am a little sensitive on this subject. With all that, I will entertain that the government had fore-knowledge of the attack and failed to stop it for some reason. The first attack ('93) the FBI had an informer and the attackers (most, if not all, carrying Iraqi passports) were "allowed" to perform the attacked because the FBI was trying to get more evidence. But you know what - we knew all of that fairly quickly after the attacks. It is hard to believe that if such evidence existed we have not seen it yet - I can keep an open mind if the evidence occurs but there has to be evidence.

The problem I have is with these people who believe:
a) The passengers are all made up and those flights never occured.
-or-
b) The building was wired with explosives before hand the passengers were involved and are in hiding
-or-
any of the other theories that are contradicted by the direct evidence or just not practical.

[gillianren]

how could they have "made up" the passengers if one of them was the creator of Frasier?

yeah, I know, I know--that wacky logic thing again. there are some circles where people are not friends with Mr. Logic.

I don't think the government allowed it to happen, exactly, but I think it could have been prevented. most of what got initiated after it happened came from plans that'd been sitting on Bush's desk since he took office. Clinton just didn't want to leave a war to the next president, so he didn't institute them, which is certainly a failing on his part, but oh, well.

[MM_Dandy]

Perhaps Clinton was more concerned about what was happening under his desk.

But I digress.

If I remember correctly, a very few red flags had popped up concerning the highjackers, but none of them were taken seriously. Unfortunately, it would seem that the policing agencies of our government have the same problem that NASA has. The hardest part, of course, was and is deciding what information merits more attention.

Supposedly, both organizations have taken steps to alleviate this problem. I'm not sure exactly how either have done this, simply because the importance of the information will not be known until after a new emergency occurs.

The reality is that things like shuttle disasters and terrorist attacks will happen again. It is our duty, though, to ensure that the people we put in place are doing as much as they can to prevent them.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

That being said I Hate to be an A-hole here, but.........
I've come to believe a few in government let it happen.

That's about as far into conspiracy territory that I can logically think myself. That being said, I pretty firmly believe it was the result of "gross negligence".

If I remember correctly, a very few red flags had popped up concerning the highjackers, but none of them were taken seriously. Unfortunately, it would seem that the policing agencies of our government have the same problem that NASA has. The hardest part, of course, was and is deciding what information merits more attention.

Supposedly, both organizations have taken steps to alleviate this problem. I'm not sure exactly how either have done this, simply because the importance of the information will not be known until after a new emergency occurs.

I think one of the big reasons that none of the organizations took the information they had seriously is because they weren't made aware of all the information that every organization had regarding the situation.

Basically, a bunch of organizations had their own piece to the puzzle, but they never bothered telling any other organization about it.

[gillianren]

which is why I don't believe any conspiracy theory that requires multiple governmental agencies working together. it doesn't work very well.