Debunking 9/11 hoax

[Nighthawk]

Anyone ever tackle this one?

I looked into this a couple years ago and found some good resources for it but can't remember them now.

This one really bugs me. I know that the government is far from being completely honest but to stage something like what is being claimed is beyond even their ability to pull off.

[Bill EE]

This one makes me so MAD! I had a friend who was on the plane that hit the south tower. I know his widow and their daughter. I got on one GLP thread about this and asked the really big question - if the planes did not hit the towers where is my friend? No answer - or worst yet a stupid answer. My favorite (not exactly the right term) was from one idiot who said that the US government did the job with remote controlled airplanes and that the flights was not even scheduled for that day. Well I know a women with an itinerary for her husband's flight which never arrived (guess the ticket was a scam). Worst yet, he sold equipment to the airlines and know the idustry really well.

The other theories even get better - like they landed the planes and have been holding the passengers for the last several years in secret - this is the same government who can't keep pictures of Saddam from leaking out or prevent the Russian from learning about the atomic bomb program. But, somehow, they can how 200+ people in captivity without any of the guards saying a word, snapping a picture, or whatever.

The funniest one has to be IDW explaining that they used a micro nuclear weapon to bring down the towers because he is smarter and knows more than the fire protection professionals who have studied the fall. They are just mortals to the infinite wisdow of IDW who has studied the videos (compressed and off the web) and can clearly see the nuclear flash.

I have to agree with Penn and Teller on this one - I hope the people with these theories mouths off in front of a group of family members and see what happens.

Did I mention that this one really pisses me off?

[hazzard]

"I got on one GLP thread about this and asked the really big question."


That was as mistake,GLP are a bunch of idiots,but you know that already.

Sorry about your friend.

[twinstead]

911 conspiracy theorists sicken me.

Too bad the old apollohoax forum is gone. There were a few excellent threads where a few of the experts, especially Jay, really got down and dirty debunking the 911 theory.

The 911 conspiracy theory is very similar to the moon hoax theory. Basically it's a bunch of pseduoscientists talking mumbo jumbo, and while true structural engineers, metallurgists, and avionics experts just blow them off as idiots, some conspiracy-minded laymen listen to them with rapt attention. Many of them have no problem blaming the current administration for perpetrating the entire event on that day to justify world conquest. (those same people believe there is no such thing as terrorists; Al Queda was invented by the CIA to give us a bogeyman).

The very thought that our government could pull this incredibly complex, convoluted, and supremely risky hoax off, fooling a vast cadre of experts world-wide, yet ineptly unable to pull the wool over the eyes of a few ideologues on some fringe web sites is just ludicrous.

Since I am not a structural engineer, I have a hard time debating this theory. The people who believe it are so rabid that only cold, hard scientific facts can make any impact on their arguments.

I wouldn't mind gathering some information and rebuttals to common 911 conspiracy issues here. The 911 hoax crowd is even more exasperating than the moon hoax bunch to me, and I'd really like to learn to put them in their place.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

This one makes me so MAD! I had a friend who was on the plane that hit the south tower.

Damn. I'm sorry to hear that... :(

... one idiot who said that the US government did the job with remote controlled airplanes and that the flights was not even scheduled for that day.

This is what's so disturbing about these freaks. People died on those planes, but these conspiracy theorists won't even acknowledge that fact because it destroys their fantasy. They'll accuse the government of murdering/sacrificing the people in the towers, while they're doing something much, much worse to the people on those planes: pretending they never died, or even existed.

And it doesn't even phase them!

This is why I think the 9/11 conspiracy theorists are far more disturbed than any moon hoax believer ever could be.

The other theories even get better - like they landed the planes and have been holding the passengers for the last several years in secret - this is the same government who can't keep pictures of Saddam from leaking out or prevent the Russian from learning about the atomic bomb program. But, somehow, they can how 200+ people in captivity without any of the guards saying a word, snapping a picture, or whatever.

Yeah, but bring that up and I'm sure they'll just claim that those leaked photos were "all part of 'their' evil plan."

I have to agree with Penn and Teller on this one - I hope the people with these theories mouths off in front of a group of family members and see what happens.

I would pay money to see that.

Anyway, I used to try and debunk these people, but I don't know enough about the subject to go up against things like "remote-controlled airplanes", "micro-nukes", and even MattMarriott's "missiles made to look like a plane by using holograms".

[DrPostman]

I do have a few links that are very helpful. Especially for the Pentagon:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread79655/pg1
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911 ... dence.html
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread20775/pg3

And other 911 links:
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/01 ... -0112.html
http://ourworld-top.cs.com/mikegriffith1/refute.htm
http://www.questionsquestions.net/WTC/767orwhatzit.html
http://www.bostonphoenix.com/boston/new ... 388257.htm
or http://tinyurl.com/5qf9r
http://www.earth.columbia.edu/news/story11_16_01.html
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science ... 27842.html
http://www.skepticreport.com/psychics/radin2002.htm
Those pesky lives they want to ignore:
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade. ... ctims.html

I just checked those and they are all active links. They've
helped me on many an occaison. So far I have challenged
the 911 kooks to point out where that first link is wrong. All
they can do is wave their hands and claim coverup.


Jamie


_________________________________________
Edited by Nighthawk
I copied all the links to the Debunking Info sticky.
http://www.illuminati-r-us.com/Forums/v ... c.php?t=92

Thanks DrPostman 8)
_________________________________________

[twinstead]

Excellent!

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Damn. I posted that first link, multiple times, and they just ignored it. However, curious? did say he read it... then preceded to ask questions that had already been answered in the link.

IDW keeps rambling on and on about how the official explanation is all a sham, etc., etc...

These people are truly hopeless.

[twinstead]

Damn. I posted that first link, multiple times, and they just ignored it. However, curious? did say he read it... then preceded to ask questions that had already been answered in the link.

IDW keeps rambling on and on about how the official explanation is all a sham, etc., etc...

These people are truly hopeless.

They aren't interested in investigating. IDW and others enter into this whole debate exclusively armed with ideology. While fun at times, arguing with a rabid ideologue is ultimately totally frustrating.

It's all about world view. IDW will only listen to arguments that support his ideology. I can guarantee he may have glanced at the link, but didn't read it at all. It is contrary to his beliefs so was immediately discounted.

[Bill_Thompson]

I do have a few links that are very helpful. Especially for the Pentagon:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread79655/pg1
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911 ... dence.html
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread20775/pg3

And other 911 links:
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/01 ... -0112.html
http://ourworld-top.cs.com/mikegriffith1/refute.htm
http://www.questionsquestions.net/WTC/767orwhatzit.html
http://www.bostonphoenix.com/boston/new ... 388257.htm
or http://tinyurl.com/5qf9r
http://www.earth.columbia.edu/news/story11_16_01.html
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science ... 27842.html
http://www.skepticreport.com/psychics/radin2002.htm
Those pesky lives they want to ignore:
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade. ... ctims.html

I just checked those and they are all active links. They've
helped me on many an occaison. So far I have challenged
the 911 kooks to point out where that first link is wrong. All
they can do is wave their hands and claim coverup.


Jamie

I LOVE IT !!!

I am going to post this at the bottom of my 9-11 tribute on my web site on www.completetranslations.com

[frenat]

This link
http://anderson.ath.cx:8000/911/pen06.html

shows some of the impact damage to the exterior of the Pentagon from the wings.

_________________________________________
Edited by Nighthawk
I copied all the links to the Debunking Info sticky.
http://www.illuminati-r-us.com/Forums/v ... c.php?t=92

Thanks Frenat
_________________________________________

[Lance]

Very good link frenat. Thank you.

[hazzard]

The 9/11 hoaxtheory pisses me off far more than any of the other ones.

Im never going to debate this with anyone EVER.

[twinstead]

The 9/11 hoaxtheory pisses me off far more than any of the other ones.

Im never going to debate this with anyone EVER.

LOL I don't blame you.

Folks like Jay are good at it, because they understand structural engineering, metallurgy, and demolitions.

I on the other hand just get frustrated at the conspiracy theorists for being so stupid and blindly ideological, and frustrated at myself for not having the knowledge to refute some of the things they are saying.

[ToSeek]

I'm continually amazed at how many people are sure they know exactly what should happen when a jet airplane hits a skyscraper.

This is a sore spot with me, too - one of my brother's best friends was on the plane that hit the Pentagon. He and his wife are now helping take care of his widow and her daughter.

[twinstead]

I'm continually amazed at how many people are sure they know exactly what should happen when a jet airplane hits a skyscraper.

This is a sore spot with me, too - one of my brother's best friends was on the plane that hit the Pentagon. He and his wife are now helping take care of his widow and her daughter.

From what I have seen, proponents of a 911 conspiracy, even more than the moon hoax issue, are to a man driven solely by ideological bias.

[frenat]

I'm continually amazed at how many people are sure they know exactly what should happen when a jet airplane hits a skyscraper.

Or exactly what the Secret Service should have done to protect the President. Most people don't realize that when the President goes somewhere there is almost contstant fighter presence and AWACS radar coverage. Not to mention the fact that the school he was in would not be easily identifiable (at least compared to the White House or the Pentagon) from the air.

[Candy]

I put out my flag pin observance on my front door every year. I work for United Airlines.

“The terrorist attack on America on September 11, 2001, marked a turning point in the history of United, the country and the world. Our hearts and minds are filled with memories of the co-workers, customers, friends and loved ones we lost during the tragic events of that day.” We will always remember.

The words, “Let’s roll…” will forever be imbedded in my mind (UA93). This day will haunt me for the rest of my life. :(

[Cl1mh4224rd]

According to a map I once saw of Flight 93's path, it actually flew almost directly over my house, and went down about an hour's drive away...

I know it's a tenuous relation to the events, but I still find it kind of... sobering.

[gillianren]

Apollo HBs are annoying. JFK HBs are annoying. 9/11 HBs--and Holocaust HBs--are dangerous. while all four categories show a remarkable resistance to evidence, at least the first two don't ignore deaths to support an untenable position.

[conspiracy cam]

About the missing people:

Some people think....

That all four "hi-jacked" planes were landed next to each other. All of the people were loaded into one plane. Two planes hit the towers one hits the pentagon. The other last one crashes over pensilvania and the passengers called a hero.

Sick i know, but this is what these people think.

[gillianren]

wait--isn't that, like, chronologically impossible? also not safe (yeah, I know--they're planning to crash the plane; who cares about overloading it? but you want it to crash as planned)?

[conspiracy cam]

wait--isn't that, like, chronologically impossible? also not safe (yeah, I know--they're planning to crash the plane; who cares about overloading it? but you want it to crash as planned)?

I know, But i don't make these theories up

[Bob B.]

About the missing people:

Some people think....

That all four "hi-jacked" planes were landed next to each other. All of the people were loaded into one plane. Two planes hit the towers one hits the pentagon. The other last one crashes over pensilvania and the passengers called a hero.

Sick i know, but this is what these people think.

This is only half the story as I've heard it told. We had some nut case over at (the old) Apollohoax who went on about 9/11 for probably 100 pages or so. He described it this way (borrowing from other conspiracy theorists):

The four commercial airliners were hijacked and each was then flown to pre-arranged destinations. Three of the airliners rendezvoused in flight with three separate remotely-controlled aircraft equipped with missiles and explosives. Once each pair of aircraft matched flight paths and merged into a single target, the commercial aircraft turned off their transponders and the remote-controlled craft turned on transponders matching the identity of the hijacked planes. The remote-controlled aircraft then flew off to their respective targets -- WTC 1 and 2 and the Pentagon. The three airliners that were replaced by the bomb laden aircraft then flew off and met up with the fourth airliner, and all four landed at the same airfield. All the passengers and crew were then loaded onto a single aircraft, took off again, and was intentionally crashed into a field in Pennsylvania.

The myriad problems with this scenario should be obvious to everyone here, so I won't go into it. Even if one could reconcile all the inconsistencies and solve the logistical and technical problems, it is just an overly complicated and stupid plan. Nobody in their right mind would ever try something like this.

edit spelling

[twinstead]

Nobody in their right mind would ever try something like this.

There seems to be a cottage industry in conspiracy theories; it gets worse every day.

There are some people who suggest that since to them it is incontrovertible that the government was complicit in 911, any subsequent 'terrorist' attack will simply be another staged attack to further some additional goal.

The implications of this kind of thinking are really scary to me.