Religion VS. Belief

[Dragon Star]

Ok, this is one of those things I have gotten into so many fights about...

I have always been against Organized Religion (OR), in fact it bugs the hell out of me. OR is the cause of multiple wars, and continues to be a huge problem in the middle east, and affects even current issues and science.

What is the difference?

The difference is you can believe in something without being part of OR. OR to me is nothing but promoting religion on people, which I am totally against. Why go to church and have someone tell you what the Bible is about and not just read it for yourself and interpret it your own way? To me OR is just a resistance to other Religions, and is pretty much useless and does nothing but harm people.

So I ask you people, why is OR so great? Why can't people just believe? What do you think?

[Lance]

There is no reason you can't be spiritual without being religious.

[pmcolt]

^ or vice versa.

I think OR serves the same purpose as political parties. It serves to unite folks of the same group, divide folks of different groups, and saves people from having to think about their own beliefs themselves by giving them someone else's beliefs, instead.

[Dragon Star]

divide folks of different groups, .

Exactly, so much so that it causes war, creates miscommunication, and even makes people believe that their religion is the one that is right, and all other are wrong.

[Lance]

I hate you for saying that. Now I must kill you in the Name of God.

That makes sense, how?

[Dragon Star]

I hate you for saying that. Now I must kill you in the Name of God.

That makes sense, how?

It doesn't, what exactly is your point here? I missed it completely... :?

[Lonewulf]

Religion doesn't kill people, people kill people. Without religion, they would've found another reason; like cows. Yes, there were conflicts fought over cows. There were also conflicts fought over bird shit, too (as guano was good for fertilizing fields). There were wars fought over secularism.

People have something to fight over, they find out. Religion has merely been a convenient excuse.

[Lance]

I hate you for saying that. Now I must kill you in the Name of God.

That makes sense, how?

It doesn't, what exactly is your point here? I missed it completely... :?

Yeah...

Never mind. I don't know what point I was trying to make either.

[Dragon Star]

My point is that thousand year old wars are being fought, and probably 80% or so of the people fighting it don't even know what in the hell it is about, other then "They started it!".

Religion is indeed an excuse, in fact the biggest and oldest excuse there is. I bet some of the things you listed Lonewulf were fights and wars that were based on religion, you just don't know it. If I hate your guts already and they you try and steel my bird shit (if I needed it), I am going to have problems with you aren't I?

[Dragon Star]

I hate you for saying that. Now I must kill you in the Name of God.

That makes sense, how?

It doesn't, what exactly is your point here? I missed it completely... :?

Yeah...

Never mind. I don't know what point I was trying to make either.

[Lonewulf]

My point is that thousand year old wars are being fought, and probably 80% or so of the people fighting it don't even know what in the hell it is about, other then "They started it!".

There are underriding economic and political reasons for doing what they are doing, it is not all based on religion.

Religion is indeed an excuse, in fact the biggest and oldest excuse there is. I bet some of the things you listed Lonewulf were fights and wars that were based on religion, you just don't know it. If I hate your guts already and they you try and steel my bird shit (if I needed it), I am going to have problems with you aren't I?

I could take the reverse position. I could say that religion is the offered-up excuse, but the *real* reason was the economic and political ones. The land, the resources, and the benefits are more important than the religion; the religious religion is simply just "there".

Plus, as I said, if religion had never existed, and went "poof" and went away, there just would have been another reason.

[Dragon Star]

But economic and political reasons can just as easily be excuses for Religious war. Not all war is based on religion, but even some of the oldest wars known to man are based on such.

But back to my original question, why can't people just have belief and not have OR?

[Lonewulf]

But economic and political reasons can just as easily be excuses for Religious war. Not all war is based on religion, but even some of the oldest wars known to man are based on such.

That was my point. Either way seems more of an opinion than anything else. It's basically, "Religion is bad because it gets people to kill people!" I'm sorry, but I can't bring myself to believe that. People are the ones doing the killing, not the idea. Without that idea, they'd just find another one.

But back to my original question, why can't people just have belief and not have OR?

Because there's a ton of precedent. The churches already exist, they're nearly a fundamental source in society. They're a place where people congregate and communicate. It provides a good source of communing with other people of a similar mindset. Getting rid of Organized Religions isn't going to happen overnight, and if it did, then I'm pretty sure a lot of Bad Things would happen.

Either way, I still don't like religion in general. But I wouldn't go and blame all of society's ills on it.

[Halcyon Dayz, FCD]

I don't see how you are going to avoid OR anyway.
Put two of them together, and you get either a
conflict or an official church.

Put three of them together and you get a schism.

[teri tait]

I LOVE SCHISMS!! Those are the funniest and most ironic historical stories!!! Like when there were three popes all excommunicating each other! That stuff is pure gold for entertaining humourous historical fodder.
We should initiate a schism just for kicks :)
Anybody got a new OR they been itching to start up?

[Мастер]

Well, I'm going to go with the Wulf on this one, religion is often a rallying flag for people who would otherwise be fighting each other anyway...

[Lonewulf]

Anybody got a new OR they been itching to start up?

Well, unless it would get a huge following, it would be barely more than a cult...

But I have been considering making "The Cult of the Golden Eye". Which are basically followers that worship a wolf demon god. :D

[Dragon Star]

LOL

Well, guess you all got me on this one, not a while lot I can say against you opinions as they are yours, but I still feel that Religion is something that anyone can get worked up over, so I still feel that OR should be done away with. Would it make the world a cupcake? No, but people are going to fight over religion more then bird shit.

As for people finding something to fight about, people are going to fight over religion more then bird shit, same goes for just about every other topic.

[pmcolt]

^^ Well, every OR probably started out as nothing more than a cult. What is it about your "Cult of the Golden Eye" that will draw believers far and wide, and have them worshiping the wolf-demon centuries from now?

[Dragon Star]

Don't give him any ideas....

[Lonewulf]

^^ Well, every OR probably started out as nothing more than a cult. What is it about your "Cult of the Golden Eye" that will draw believers far and wide, and have them worshiping the wolf-demon centuries from now?

Well, there's the Fear Factor. The more people believe, the more likely they are to be granted great power when they die.

And when the Demon Wolf God rises up, and tramples all the Unworthy underfoot, it's the followers that will be spared, and will be granted dominion over the souls of the Unworthy.

In short, it's like Christianity, only with a wolf instead of an old guy with a beard.

And a less "nice" paradise, but a fun one.

[Lance]

Anybody got a new OR they been itching to start up?

I have an idea...

[Dragon Star]

Lance you are so kick ass.... 8)

[Lonewulf]

Dude, is God trying to pick the llama's nose?

[Lance]

Um...

Thanks?