My favorite question

[Ikyoto]

I ask this of a lot of people who tell me that I'm going to go to hell if I don't accept their god:

"If you could exchange places and save just one person from eternal hell, would you do it?"

When they say no I follow up with:

"Isn't that what your god would do?"

Comments?

[MM_Dandy]

I ask this of a lot of people who tell me that I'm going to go to hell if I don't accept their god:

"If you could exchange places and save just one person from eternal hell, would you do it?"

When they say no I follow up with:

"Isn't that what your god would do?"

Comments?

I'm going to Hell forever if I don't accept my God, either. I'll assume that your first question means that once I exchange places with you, I could never change my destiny and avoid going to Hell forever. In that case, would say "no" as well.

Many Christians believe that our God did do something like this. The difference is that we believe He spent only three (of our) days in Hell.

So why do we get to go to Hell forever? I honestly don't know. Maybe there's a rule that says you only have to spend three days in Hell if you exchange places with an unsaved soul. Somehow, I doubt that it would work this way.

[teri tait]

I ask this of a lot of people who tell me that I'm going to go to hell if I don't accept their god:

"If you could exchange places and save just one person from eternal hell, would you do it?"

When they say no I follow up with:

"Isn't that what your god would do?"

Comments?

What do you respond with if they answer yes?

[Lonewulf]

I still don't get the whole God and Hell thing.

God created hell. God created the devil. All of these things are, logically, beneath him.

He allows Satan to exists to seed in fear, doubt, and hate into the human race, and then punishes them for Satan's acts. And then he sends down his "own Son" to be massacred (since, you know, the Son is him himself supposedly), basically wounding himself to mess up something he himself created, for the sins caused by another of his creations... What the fuck?

Oh, right, I can't question God. That's right. It doesn't have to make sense, it just is, because the Bible said so.

Oh, and we're supposed to love this complete stranger we don't know, worship him, revere him, and trust in him our souls; when all he did was die, suffer a bit, and then go up to Heaven. All for us. I'm so moved.

And if we don't believe in this robed man, no matter our actions, we go to Hell. Since, you know, it's a major sin not to worship this random man. But worshipping "false" Idols isn't okay at all. But yet, apparently, God wants us to worship his toenail (Since Jesus is, after all, just a small portion of God; like his Toenail).

[teri tait]

I still don't get the whole God and Hell thing.

God created hell. God created the devil. All of these things are, logically, beneath him.

He allows Satan to exists to seed in fear, doubt, and hate into the human race, and then punishes them for Satan's acts. And then he sends down his "own Son" to be massacred (since, you know, the Son is him himself supposedly), basically wounding himself to mess up something he himself created, for the sins caused by another of his creations... What the fuck?

Oh, right, I can't question God. That's right. It doesn't have to make sense, it just is, because the Bible said so.

Oh, and we're supposed to love this complete stranger we don't know, worship him, revere him, and trust in him our souls; when all he did was die, suffer a bit, and then go up to Heaven. All for us. I'm so moved.

And if we don't believe in this robed man, no matter our actions, we go to Hell. Since, you know, it's a major sin not to worship this random man. But worshipping "false" Idols isn't okay at all. But yet, apparently, God wants us to worship his toenail (Since Jesus is, after all, just a small portion of God; like his Toenail).

So that's going to be a "no" from you then?

[Lonewulf]

So that's going to be a "no" from you then?

I suppose.

Followed up with a quick "How the fuck can you people believe that thing?" responce.

But I'm not surprised. People have believed very strange things in the past. That Indians were all ruthless savages that needed to be killed, that Africans were gorilla-men that couldn't breed with humans, that Jews were the source of all society's harm.

I'm bringing up an extreme example here, but not to make any extreme claims. I'm just saying that, quite frankly, a great mass of people really convinced themselves of something, and held so true to their beliefs for so long. There's precedent.

I don't know why people could believe these things, but they did; they did even when the evidence against their beliefs were right in front of them. And a lot of these beliefs lasted into the 20th century, and even STILL last for a few people!

No matter what evidence or logic lay in their eyes, they deluded themselves. That's what religion is to me; a mass delusion.

[umop ap!sdn]

Isn't this god said to be omniscient, omnipotent, and completely benevolent? Then why should evil exist in the first place? If it does, then either he doesn't know, doesn't care, or else can't do anything about it.

Now I assume that sinning isn't allowed in heaven. So no cussing, no getting high, no premarital sex. Depending on who you ask, there may also be no drinking and limitations on the gender of one's spouse.

I read somewhere that most Christians today don't believe in the fire & brimstone edition of hell, but rather a sort of eternal darkness. Personally, I think it's worth it to enjoy the good things in life and figure on not having an afterlife anyway.

[Lonewulf]

Eternal darkness? I could handle that.

I've always wanted to experience sensory deprivation. I think I could avoid going insane; I'd just imagine and imagine and imagine...

[teri tait]

Eternal darkness? I could handle that.

I've always wanted to experience sensory deprivation. I think I could avoid going insane; I'd just imagine and imagine and imagine...

One man's heaven is another man's hell. You should read Dante's "Divine Comedy" its about the circles of hell which hold different punishments based on your level of sin. It essentially says, man creates his own hell through residual guilt from sins he committed and each tormented soul is locked into his realm of hell until he can come to terms with himself and God. It doesn't describe the Devil and his demons as a bad so much as just doing their job.

[Lance]

It doesn't describe the Devil and his demons as a bad so much as just doing their job.

That's comforting... He's just a 9-5 devil. Cool.

[Lonewulf]

It doesn't describe the Devil and his demons as a bad so much as just doing their job.

Sounds like a good fairy tale or fiction.

[Dragon Star]

I don't believe in hell at all, all it is in my mind is to scare you into being good, and not being "evil". I get the same interpretation from the bible, it's just a guidebook to being a good person.

[Lonewulf]

I don't believe in hell at all, all it is in my mind is to scare you into being good, and not being "evil".

I don't believe in any religion at all, so of course I won't believe in hell.

I get the same interpretation from the bible, it's just a guidebook to being a good person.

Really? Is that the part after the bits on slavery, the bits on how to oppress homosexuals, the bit after the part on genocide, or the bit after how God kills people that don't do what he tells them to do?

Where's the part that really goes into "being a good person"? The bit on Jesus? Like how he killed a fig tree for not providing for him? Yeah, a spiteful "savior", that's all we need.

Where exactly does it go into "being a good person"? Because the standards of "good" 2000 years ago were NOT the same standards of "good" as today. So the Bible is a VERY outdated piece of moral lecture!

[Dragon Star]

Lonewulf I agree, I don't personally think that it was a good book, but I do think that it has been good as in holding humanity together, I think otherwise we could be in total chaos, instead of just a little chaos.

[Lonewulf]

Lonewulf I agree, I don't personally think that it was a good book, but I do think that it has been good as in holding humanity together, I think otherwise we could be in total chaos, instead of just a little chaos.

Before or after the Crusades? The Salem Witch Trials? The massacre of the Jews in Germany (which was more religious-oriented than many would admit)?

Also, there is no reason to believe that religion is the only cohesion of society. Society used religion to put the people in line, but religion came as a result of society, not vice versa. It was a tool, simply put, and any other social construct could have served as just as nice a tool.

However, as for the Bible being a book on values, that is entirely true. Many of the fables and tales in the Bible is mainly to teach people a lesson; to be dutiful, to be careful, to be diligent, and giving them guides on how to be "good people"; as well as being an educational tool similar to handbooks for kids that tell them to beware boiling cauldrons. That, to me, seems to be one of the major reasons for the Bible.

But it is not a good guide today.

[Dragon Star]

Agreed.

[SciFi Chick]

The way I figure it, if you have to accept Jesus as your savior, then he got a raw deal. If I went and sacrificed myself for all of humanity as some legal nitpick by Dad, I would want to save, well, all of humanity. Thus, I wouldn't care if they believed in me or even knew I existed. The point is that Satan would no longer have any legal right to them, and they wouldn't go to hell, which, according to the Bible, was created for the devil and his angels.

So, I would be really annoyed if I went through all this torture and death and humiliation, only to find out that people have to confess that they believe in me, and on the basis of what other human being's say - I don't even get to leave behind any definitive evidence or at least show up every once in awhile and remind everyone that I rose from the dead and I'm still alive and kicking. What an unfair deal.

[Enzo]

Why stop there? How does this he died for our sins thing work anyway? I was thinking how would this play out at home. Hey kids, I let dad beat me senseless so you won't have to get beat for not doing your chores later. When dad comes to beat you, just tell him that I already have been beaten for your sins. The beat goes on. The whole concept doesn't make sense. Other than to make him a martyr, killing him doesn't help me at all.

[SciFi Chick]

I don't stop there, but I didn't want to be overly verbose in one of my first posts here. ;)

[Lance]

It's okay, SciFi Chick... The users here will either "get you" right away or try to stone you just because you exist. There is no middle ground.

[SciFi Chick]

It's okay, SciFi Chick... The users here will either "get you" right away or try to stone you just because you exist. There is no middle ground.

What a... comforting thought.

[SciFi Chick]

Okay - that was probably a little overkill, but I just love that little laughing guy. He cracks me up. :D

[Lonewulf]

Hello, Monique!

That ruined the laughing smiley for me.

(Probably shouldn't bring this up here. feel free to move it. But it is true.)

[SciFi Chick]

Hello, Monique!

That ruined the laughing smiley for me.

(Probably shouldn't bring this up here. feel free to move it. But it is true.)

If you have another look, you'll see that's NOT the laughing smilie that I used. And you KNOW you shouldn't have brought it up here. Shame, shame.

[Lance]

Hello, Monique!

That ruined the laughing smiley for me.

Just consider the smiley to be laughing at Candy.