A purchased government appointment?

[Halcyon Dayz, FCD]

American billionaire buys himself a ambassadorship.
Then he buys himself a get-out-of-jail-free card.

Arnall

In most countries everybody would be yelling: Corruption.
What am I not getting here?

[Мастер]

What were the criminal charges against him?

[Dragon Star]

Every government is corrupted, what can be done about that? Not much.

[Мастер]

Every government is corrupted, what can be done about that? Not much.

All governments are corrupt, but some are more corrupt than others...

http://ww1.transparency.org/cpi/2005/cp ... es.en.html

[Halcyon Dayz, FCD]

The US Senate confirmed billionaire Roland E. Arnall as Ambassador to the Netherlands on Wednesday evening.

Arnall was nominated to replace Clifford Sobel in The Hague six months ago. The confirmation process dragged on for months due to allegations Arnall's Ameriquest Mortgage Co. was involved in unfair lending practices.

The deadlock was finally ended when Ameriquest agreed to pay USD 325 million (EUR 271 million) to settle these allegations against it in 49 states and the District of Columbia. The Senate backed Arnall's appointment as Ambassador with an uncontested voice vote.

...

Arnall is seen as an important supporter of the President. The billionaire and his second wife, Dawn, raised more than USD 12 million for Bush's re-election campaign in 2004.

CEOs should be held personally responsible for the misdoings of their company.
Rather than and screw the customers, and screw the shareholders.

I think I want Paul Bremer back.
At least he bothered to learn the local lingo.

[Мастер]

CEOs should be held personally responsible for the misdoings of their company.
Rather than and screw the customers, and screw the shareholders.

I think I want Paul Bremer back.
At least he bothered to learn the local lingo.

I have nothing particular to say about this individual's qualifications or lack thereof as an ambassador. But to some extent, CEOs are held personally responsible for the misdoings of their company. Should the CEO of any firm that loses (or settles) a lawsuit go to jail?

Regarding screwing the customers and screwing the shareholders, to screw one is often to benefit the other.

[Halcyon Dayz, FCD]

For all I care they lock'm all up. Corporate crime is rampant.
And it is the little men that gets screwed.
And the little man can't get out of that kind of trouble
by handing over a lot of money.

But for now I more worried about the fact that White House cronies
get the jobs that should go to professionals.
This is not GoodGovernment™.

[Lonewulf]

I agree with Halcyon, to a certain extent. (I really do think that some "corrupt businesses" are actually overstated)

[Мастер]

For all I care they lock'm all up. Corporate crime is rampant.
And it is the little men that gets screwed.

Well I agree with that, there are hundreds of millions in the world who are living on a couple of USD a day. I'm sure a lot of them would just like to chuck all of the super-rich Dutch people in prison, as it is always the little men who get screwed, never the Dutch.

And the little man can't get out of that kind of trouble
by handing over a lot of money.

What I have been trying to find out is what kind of trouble he got out of. The little men around the world do indeed sometimes get out of trouble by settling lawsuits. Sometimes the elite super-rich from the Netherlands even do it.

But for now I more worried about the fact that White House cronies
get the jobs that should go to professionals.
This is not GoodGovernment™.

I agree with that.

[Halcyon Dayz, FCD]

Price gouging. I had to look up that term.

I'm sure a lot of them would just like to chuck all of the super-rich Dutch people in prison, as it is always the little men who get screwed, never the Dutch.

No, just make'm pay up. To many bloody billionaires anyway. :wink:

Sometimes the elite super-rich from the Netherlands even do it.

They do. Recently Ahold bought is way out of an criminal investigation involving cooking the books by some of their US subsidiaries. Pisses me off.

[Мастер]

Price gouging. I had to look up that term.

I'm sure a lot of them would just like to chuck all of the super-rich Dutch people in prison, as it is always the little men who get screwed, never the Dutch.

No, just make'm pay up. To many bloody billionaires anyway. :wink:

Ah, so rich Dutch people with incomes of, let's say, 5,000 euros or even more should be able to get out of trouble just by paying then...

[Halcyon Dayz, FCD]

Are you having fun? :wink:

That's not what I meant.
They should pay their fair share in public expenses.
They are the people who benefit most from the society they live in.

[Мастер]

Are you having fun? :wink:

No, I'm just trying to understand :wink:

That's not what I meant.
They should pay their fair share in public expenses.
They are the people who benefit most from the society they live in.

OK, so people who benefit most from society (e.g., people in rich countries like the Netherlands) should pay their fair share to help the little people who are getting screwed (e.g., people in the Central African Republic). I think I understand now. Well the Netherlands is in fact a pretty generous country, it gives approximately 0.8% of GDP to poorer countries in foreign aid. I mean, it's not like they demand more than that from people with above average incomes within the Netherlands, is it?

[Halcyon Dayz, FCD]

I get the feeling I am completely at a lost about what you mean?

I mean, it's not like they demand more than that from people with above average incomes within the Netherlands, is it?

Who do you mean by they here?

Anyway,
Tax-rates on income out of labour and house in the Netherlands
tier---------------------------rate-------rate for 65+ of age
1 up to € 16,893-----------33.55%---15.65%
2 € 16,893 to € 30,357---40.50%---22.60%
3 € 30,357 to € 51,762---42.00%---42.00%
4 € 51,762 and over-------52.00%---52.00%

(There should be a tax-free base-tier, but I can find it. Maybe they changed that to.)

Modal income is ca € 29,500 (I hope that is the right term), average income is ca € 25,300.
The lower rates for senior citizens in tier 1 and 2 is due to lower Social Securities rates, which are incorporated.
This is of course only part of the story. In some cases you can actually receive money from the Revenue Service, rather than have to pay anything.
It can get very complicated.

[Мастер]

Who do you mean by they here?

Anyway,
Tax-rates on income out of labour and house in the Netherlands
tier---------------------------rate-------rate for 65+ of age
1 up to € 16,893-----------33.55%---15.65%
2 € 16,893 to € 30,357---40.50%---22.60%
3 € 30,357 to € 51,762---42.00%---42.00%
4 € 51,762 and over-------52.00%---52.00%

(There should be a tax-free base-tier, but I can find it. Maybe they changed that to.)

Modal income is ca € 29,500 (I hope that is the right term), average income is ca € 25,300.
The lower rates for senior citizens in tier 1 and 2 is due to lower Social Securities rates, which are incorporated.
This is of course only part of the story. In some cases you can actually receive money from the Revenue Service, rather than have to pay anything.
It can get very complicated.

Oh no, this is terrible. Why did you have to give me this information? I will never think of the Netherlands the same way again. So a person who earns five times the national average income must pay more than 50% tax for the benefit of the poorer people within his/her country, but a country with income five times the world average income pays less than 1% in foreign aid to the poorer countries? If I didn't know any better, I'd think, well, maybe I shouldn't even say it, it is such a dark thought...

[Halcyon Dayz, FCD]

Ah, sarcasm.
(I should have trusted my gut.)

Not quite.
Toward the common good, not just the poor countries.
Doesn't sound practical, does it?
Can we settle on 10%, very biblical.
It's cheaper than war.

And the .8% is government only, not private funding.

[Мастер]

(I should have trusted my gut.)

It's often best.

Toward the common good, not just the poor countries.

Well, towards the good of someone, that's for sure...

Doesn't sound practical, does it?
Can we settle on 10%, very biblical.
It's cheaper than war.

Well, I won't advocate any particular policy. And certainly the Netherlands is not unique in this regard. I just find people are selective about when they advocate redistribution of wealth; usually it's when they're standing next to people who are richer than they are.

And the .8% is government only, not private funding.

True enough, although an interesting point on this one - a country which is something of a laggard in official foreign aid (the US) is quite a leader in private donations. And much of this comes from religious groups. Say what you like about fundies (and I often do), but we must be fair - they do contribute to the well-being of some of the most destitute in the world, with real money, not just "compassion."

[Lonewulf]

Well, I won't advocate any particular policy. And certainly the Netherlands is not unique in this regard. I just find people are selective about when they advocate redistribution of wealth; usually it's when they're standing next to people who are richer than they are."

Damn, I like this quote.

Mind if I use it? For various things?

[Halcyon Dayz, FCD]

Well, sometimes billionaires redistribute their wealth to.
But then it is up to their personal idiosyncrasies where it ends up.

And I am always standing next to someone richer than me.
It gets old, you know.

[Lonewulf]

Redistributing wealth