Burning the U.S. Flag?

[Lance]

I just saw a report on CNN that the U.S. Senate is about to vote on, and likely pass, an amendment to the U.S. Constitution that will prohibit desecrating the U.S. flag. The amendment would then need to be ratified by at least 38 states before going into effect.

Do we really need that?

I would never burn a flag or condone anyone else doing it. And as a matter of fact, I find the idea quite distasteful. But at the same time, isn't that the kind of freedom that is so important to Americans?


To those of you from elsewhere:

Is it legal to burn the flag of your nation? Is it something that is done regularly, as a protest?

[teri tait]

I think its a great idea. It is really disrespectful to burn the flag or desicrate it in any way. The flag should not be a prop for malcontents to destroy in public just to emphasize a point.
It just makes me think of the raising of the flag statue from WWII and growing up on base where when the flag went up or down, traffic (pedestrian and vehicle) would pause until it was set or folded. I also remember how proud I was when it was my turn to help raise the flag at my elementary school. It makes me sick to see a flag hanging limp in the rain or even still up after dark.

Call me weird but I think the flag should be treated with the utmost respect.

[Lance]

Call me weird but I think the flag should be treated with the utmost respect.

I agree with that completely, and I do, but that's not the point. Making it illegal to disrespect the flag is a loss of freedom. The same freedom that flag stands for, and I think it is wrong.

[teri tait]

To me its more like desecrating a grave or something than free speech. It reminds me of the way they burn effigies during protests. Its just wrong and add nothing to the free speech of anyone, it really creates hard feelings in often volatile situations.

[Dragon Star]

I am going to go right down the center here...

Flag burning is NOT Ok, but I don't think we should go as far as setting in an amendment.

[Lance]

Flag burning is NOT Ok, but I don't think we should go as far as setting in an amendment.

I believe that is my position as well.

[Superluminal]

I do have mixed feelings about flag burning. I agree 100% with Teri.

I think one of the best reasons to ban flag burning, would be for the persons on protection. Around here if someone burned a flag on the court house steps, they would be in danger of getting their *** kicked.

If I burned a Chicago Bear flag at Soldier Field, I'd probably be stomped. So, maybe just make burning any flag in public illegal.

Another way I look at it is: If I go to Wal-mart and buy a flag, all I really own is the cloth the flag is made of. I don't own the symbol on the cloth, the people of the U.S. own the symbol. Just like the symbol or logo for a corporation or sports team. If its misused, they have legal rights that can be pursued.

[SciFi Chick]

Maybe we should just make the ass kicking that follows burning a flag a form of self defense.

[pmcolt]

This again? Do politicians just keep a secret list of pet Constitutional amendments to propose whenever their popularity is low?

Flag-burning is not a nice, good, warm, fuzzy thing. It's terrible. I hold it on the same level as cross-burning, flying the Nazi flag, and gathering outside funerals with signs saying "G-d hates f-gs".

But none of these things require a Constitutional amendment. Don't do it on someone else's property. Don't do it in a public place where you're likely to incite a riot in response. If you do, then maybe there should be a law that says "if you end up with a bloody nose as a result, it's your own d*mn fault."

[Enzo]

It is a non-issue that self-seving poiticians are glomming onto to improve their standing. Name two incidents of US flag burning IN THE USA in the last five years. Or ten years for that matter. Flag burning is not something that occurs very often. Lightning kills people far more often. The politicians can whip up our emotions on the issue. They do it by making it a potential ocurrence. They never get the opportunity to make it an object lesson since it almost never happens.

Is it offensive? Sure. It is also offensive when groups of people like the Swift Boat Veterans go public with out and out lies about a political candidate. Such actions add nothing to the political debate and engender hard feelings. It disrespects veterans of all kinds as well as the AMerican political process. SHould we amend the constitution to abolish campaign lies? I'd like to see them end, but not at the expense of free speech.

I think the flag should be treated with respect as well. When I see a ratty flag flying over a building, I stop and go in and express my distaste. I suggest to them that it would be better to fly no flag at all than the rag they have up there now. I wish everyone felt that way. But I also find what happened at Tienanmin Square distasteful. WHen governments can limit - and constitutionally at that - political protests, we are sliding down the slippery slope to such totalitarian nonsense.

I remember in the 1960s when flag desecration was a tool of the right to harass the hippies. Friends of mine were arrested because they had painted their VW bus red white and blue. The front part blue with white stars, and the rest of the body red and white stripes. I know another man who was arrested for having his motorcycle helmet in a stars and strips pattern - even though it was a commercial helmet available that way in stores.

Nowdays people seem to think it is somehow patriotic to wear stars and stripes clothing. It is now OK to have our flag covering your ass. You can sit on the flag. SO much for non-desecration. The pendulum can swing both ways. We ban a flag burning that almost never happens anyway, and poof, it is a precedent to go back to making most anything else flag desecration.

We allow the KKK to march in our cities, not because we like them, we revile them, but this is AMerica, they have the right to assemble and to speak out. When they do, we suround them with police just so their asses DON'T get kicked. Some asshole burns our flag, I agree he is asking for a beating, but we can't start outlawing everything that merits an ass kicking.

If I do something not approved with the Chicago Bears logo, they may have grounds for action because they own the logo. The difference here is that when I buy that flag, I bought the cloth from Wal Mart, but as a citizen, I already OWN the flag. It belongs to me, and you, and you, and everyone else.

[Superluminal]

If they do pass a flag burning amendment, there will be a lot of jerks burning flags in defiance of the law.

[Lance]

The difference here is that when I buy that flag, I bought the cloth from Wal Mart, but as a citizen, I already OWN the flag. It belongs to me, and you, and you, and everyone else.

I think the better thing to get mad about is where it was probably made. Today we buy or flags as cheaply as we can. I think it become less important to someone as a symbol of anything when the main concern is saving $2.00 on the purchase price.

[hippietrekx]

I think that if someone wants to burn the flag, and make a whole bunch of people pissed off at them, let them.

Then again, those who would burn the flag are usually extremists. The majority of Americans wouldn't burn the flag anyway. I know I never would, and so an ammendment wouldn't affect me.

Those who will, will anyway, and those who won't, won't. Might as well keep it open as an option, than start using it was a paragon to start banning other displays against the government.

--hippie

[Bandit]

Good points made here. I'll second what pmcolt and some others have said - I find it distasteful (to put it mildly) but think an amendment goes too far.

[Lance]

Maybe flag burning is a form of natural selection.

People so inclined as to want to burn the flag should be encouraged to do so, on the patriotic holidays, near large crowds of veterans.

[Мастер]

This one has gotten through the house before, but always got shot down in the senate.

[Lance]

It looks like the have 66 votes this time. One vote short and still lobbying.

[Lonewulf]

Is it just me, or isn't flag burning actually STANDARD procedure for getting rid of it? When people have a tattered flag, they don't throw it in the trash, they burn it. Or am I wrong on this one?

I thought the whole point in protest for burning a flag has to do with the fact that they're burning a *clean* flag... thus, it means that the government itself is the one that's tattered and in need of redevelopment.

But hey, if we want to see tattered flags thrown in dumpsters, that's perfectly fine with me. Sends the right message, too.

[Dragon Star]

That's a pretty good point really...

[Lance]

The amendment would be to prevent desecrating the flag. Burning a torn, tattered flag to dispose of it is not desecration. Throwing it into a dumpster would be.

[teri tait]

Yep, here in my town they have a mailbox looking container that sits out front of the WalMart. It is provided by the VFW and is to deposit your flag for proper disposal.

I saw this morning on the news that 73% of Americans are in favor of the amendment. I was surprised the number was so high. Of course, they phrased the question as desecretion such as urinating on the flag or defecating on the flag.

They also told some impassioned stories of flag burning protests. One was done at a cemetary during the funeral of a Veteran just a few days ago. :(

[Lance]

NEWS FLASH:

The amendment was defeated by one vote in the U.S. Senate.

The voice of reason wins out... Cool.

[Dragon Star]

Yea, but that's too close for comfort...

[Halcyon Dayz, FCD]

To those of you from elsewhere:

Is it legal to burn the flag of your nation? Is it something that is done regularly, as a protest?

It happens now and then.
It is a violation of public order. So you'll get arrested and then fined.
Often enough though, the riot police will just take it as a cue to charge.

[Мастер]

To those of you from elsewhere:

Is it legal to burn the flag of your nation? Is it something that is done regularly, as a protest?

It happens now and then.
It is a violation of public order. So you'll get arrested and then fined.
Often enough though, the riot police will just take it as a cue to charge.

Is it content-based? I.e., suppose the flag of some other nation is burned, or that some cloth object which is not the flag of any nation is burned. Same penalty?