N. Korea threatens war...

[Superluminal]

Air samples collected after the blast by an AF EC-135 were found to have radiation consistent with a nuclear test using plutonium. There is still debate as to whether there was an actual nuclear explosion or if it was a dud. But I like your idea of turning them into a laughing stock.

[The Beer Slayer]

If the yield was less than a kiloton then it had to have been a dud.

[Lance]

Air samples collected after the blast by an AF EC-135 were found to have radiation consistent with a nuclear test using plutonium. There is still debate as to whether there was an actual nuclear explosion or if it was a dud.

Oh, yeah, I know. I should have made it clear that I didn't care if the statement was true or intentional disinformation. It doesn't matter...

[Dragon Star]

I think we should have released a statement a few days after their nuke test stating unequivocally that it was not a nuke, just a great deal of conventional explosives, and made them a laughing stock. That would have either shut them up (unlikely) or forced their hand to do something even more stupid and let China off the hook as their only ally. Then the entire world could take a firmer stand against them and do what ever is necessary to remove Kim Jong NutSack from power.

Who else votes Lance for president?

[pmcolt]

What, does he need ulcers?

At this point, I'm in favor of just stating whatever we determine to be the truth. Our reputation is bad enough without some "US wrong about NK nuke test" scandal months from now.

[Lonewulf]

Another series of lies, all in the name of politics? Pass.

Dishonesty isn't pretty, no matter how much you like the dishonest statement.

[Lance]

Another series of lies, all in the name of politics? Pass.

Dishonesty isn't pretty, no matter how much you like the dishonest statement.

Oh come on...

Anyone remember Operation Imminent Thunder? That sure worked pretty well.

[Lonewulf]

Another series of lies, all in the name of politics? Pass.

Dishonesty isn't pretty, no matter how much you like the dishonest statement.

Oh come on...

Anyone remember Operation Imminent Thunder? That sure worked pretty well.

Haven't heard of it.

I oppose lies and dishonest in general, only accepting them if they are utterly, and without any question, necessary. I have yet to truly see a necessary lie.

Unfortunately, it seems that all of politics are based on lies and half-truths. Which is somewhat a cause of present day's state of affairs.

[Lance]

Operation Imminent Thunder was military disinformation used during Gulf War 1. It was a series of Marine exercises in the Persian Gulf that convinced the Iraqi forces a large amphibious assault was imminent. The Iraqis did the only thing they could do, prepare to defend the shore.

In the mean time, we snuck up behind them, surrounded them and took them easily.

In that case, dishonesty was good. It undoubtedly saved many lives, probably on both sides.

[Lonewulf]

Operation Imminent Thunder was military disinformation used during Gulf War 1. It was a series of Marine exercises in the Persian Gulf that convinced the Iraqi forces a large amphibious assault was imminent. The Iraqis did the only thing they could do, prepare to defend the shore.

In the mean time, we snuck up behind them, surrounded them and took them easily.

In that case, dishonesty was good. It undoubtedly saved many lives, probably on both sides.

That was a case of warfare, for one. In warfare, we justify all sorts of things, including murder. That's not comparable to politics.

I mean, just because we used a nuclear bomb against Japan, doesn't justify using it in another situation that doesn't quite apply. So really, to compare, you'd have to show that it's utterly necessary that we lie, and that it is as necessary.

[Lance]

That was a case of warfare, for one. In warfare, we justify all sorts of things, including murder. That's not comparable to politics.

Okay, that that's where we disagree. In this case, it's dealing with an enemy. I'd like to get the problem resolved before the bullets start flying.

[Superluminal]

[/b]DS babbled:

Who else votes Lance for president?

He already is president, just wait till he and Cyndi get back from their Bigfoot expedition to Starving Rock and he will deal with Kim mentally Il in very short IRU order.

[Dragon Star]

DS babbled:

Thats more like it! I was starting to get worried that everyone was getting soft on me! :wink:

[Lonewulf]

Okay, that that's where we disagree. In this case, it's dealing with an enemy. I'd like to get the problem resolved before the bullets start flying.

I just don't see how lying about what Kim Jong Il accomplished would help the situation. Other nations would see through it as they detect the nuclear weapon via other measures, making the U.S. seem the fool. Do you think that the rest of the world REALLY bases all of their knowledge on what the U.S. claims and doesn't claim? North Korea wouldn't really have to step up measures anyways; it's not quite only the U.S. he's after, and South Korea is what he's really trying to bully.

Overall, it seems like an unnecessary, overly dangerous, and downright ludicrous lie. We might as well have tried to make the Russian moon landings out to be a hoax.

[Lance]

North Korea wouldn't really have to step up measures anyways; it's not quite only the U.S. he's after, and South Korea is what he's really trying to bully.

Actually, according to him, it is the U.S. he's trying to bully. South Korea is just a means to an end.

[Мастер]

Actually, according to him, it is the U.S. he's trying to bully. South Korea is just a means to an end.

I get the impression Kim Jong Il is willing to bully anyone who will pay him to stop bullying them. . .

[Heid the Ba]

Actually, according to him, it is the U.S. he's trying to bully. South Korea is just a means to an end.

I get the impression Kim Jong Il is willing to bully anyone who will pay him to stop bullying them. . .

So it isn't co-incidence he is threatening the US and the two strong economies in the region?

They need another couple of stages on the Taepodong before we have to worry about him threatening us.

[Мастер]

They need another couple of stages on the Taepodong before we have to worry about him threatening us.

How does it work these days? Does the Scottish parliament have the power to declare war? :P

[Dragon Star]

Here is an interesting problem I see if we go to war with N. Korea...

China, for very obvious reasons doesn't want to cross the line with N. Korea as they do not want to deal with the aftershocks., But, if N. Korea falls due to war from the U.S., and hundreds of thousands/millions of refugees escape to China, what would be the result? Would China hold the U.S. responsible and spark more feud?

[Superluminal]

I think what would be best, since China holds the reins of Kim. They can probalbly take him out without starting a war. They put someone in they can trust and who will feed the people. China gets to keep a stable communist country next door. We can quit worrying about crazy old Kim. We keep our troops on the 38th parrelell, were they can stare at each other for the next 40+ years or until the next crisis breaks out, which most likely won't be too long.

[Dragon Star]

Well, China already provides N. Korea with 70% of their fuel and 60% of their food...and frankly China wants to keep it that way, but depending on China which is neither a friend or an ally is a wishy-washy expectation because their intentions and interest are very different from ours. They do what is best for themselves.

I fear that even if they did try to take down the Kim, the rest of the Gov't would fall, leaving us with the escaping refugees again.

[Мастер]

Well, China already provides N. Korea with 70% of their fuel and 60% of their food...and frankly China wants to keep it that way, but depending on China which is neither a friend or an ally is a wishy-washy expectation because their intentions and interest are very different from ours. They do what is best for themselves.

Well, my opinion is, Mr. Kim is not the favorite person around Zhongnanhai these days, but they're just at a loss as to how to deal with him, and therefore pursue a timid, cautious policy, hoping that somehow, in some manner they can't quite forsee, the situation will resolve itself. . .

[Enzo]

Whatever values and goals the Chinese have that differ from ours, I gotta think that it would be in their self-interest NOT to have NK lobbing nuclear warheads hither and yon. And they definitely do not want hundreds of thousands of refugees either.

[Мастер]

Whatever values and goals the Chinese have that differ from ours, I gotta think that it would be in their self-interest NOT to have NK lobbing nuclear warheads hither and yon. And they definitely do not want hundreds of thousands of refugees either.

I've got to think the two nightmare scenarios for China, other than huge numbers of refugees, are:

a) A nuclear NK prompts SK, Japan, and possibly even Taiwan to go nuclear

b) A nuclear NK eventually reunites with SK, and SK is the dominant partner in the new union, leading to a nuclear-armed, pro-western state right on China's border

I really suspect the Chinese government would love to be rid of Mr. Kim, but just doesn't know how to do it without generating the large numbers of refugees or other bad (from their perspective) side-effects. . .

[Dragon Star]

HA! I was watching CNN and it appears that China was thinking the same thing I was...they have started construction on a barbed fence that surrounds the border.