Armenians

[Enzo]

SO apparently the Turks are all upset that the US COngress is considering a resolution proclaiming that the killing of Armenians by Turks a century ago was a genocide.

While I might be inclined to think they are right, I have no idea why the COngress feels it is incumbent upon them to have to issue such a resolution. WHy would we now need to declare we are taking sides on something 100 years old? Especially now.

The Turks have recalled their ambassador temporarily. They threaten they might "cut logistical support to the US."

Should we now expect the rest of the world to label our treatment of the Native Americans as a genocide? Have we yet fully apologized for slavery here?

Then there is that whole Manzanar thing.

Not to mention Britney...

[Dragon Star]

How silly. They could just re-write the text books on history and never say a word and they would never know anyhow.

[The Beer Slayer]

Wow! They must have solved all the problems in this country if they have time to fritter away on stuff like this.

[Superluminal]

Well if I remember my history. Turkey was the Ottoman Empire at that time. So, is this one of those meaningless resolutions that only serve to make politicians feel as if they have done something useful? Kinda pointless to pass anything against a government that doesn't exist anymore.

[Blue Monster 65]

Yes, but the current Turkish government and society are hell-bent on keeping up the lie that the Armenians were not slaughtered, other than in "normal" fighting.

I had a Turkish guy who lived down the hall from me in college who, when we were discussing history one time (arguing, really), was totally amazed that I would say such a thing. In all his schooling, he had never heard of such a thing and to have it brought up in his face was an insult. "We Turks would never do such a thing!" was his honest, perplexed answer. He had to call his father to ask him what I was talking about, who told Jenk I was a liar. The father then proceeded to call the school to see what could be done about having me expelled. Yep! They take that shit seriously.

However, why we would bring this up now is all down to bullshit posturing over the Iraq War.

Sigh ...

Woof! - Scott

[Мастер]

However, why we would bring this up now is all down to bullshit posturing over the Iraq War.

I'm not sure what prompted it this time, but measures like this have been brought up in the US for years. Bob Dole, who was treated by an Armenian doctor, was a supporter...

[Blue Monster 65]

Friday night, on NPR, on Tom Ashbrook's show, On Point, there was a rather heated discussion of this same topic and the general concensus was that it was not only being brought up again, due to the large Armenian population of one of the senators, but also as a way to "hurt" the war effort as Turkey would undoubtably end our access through their country.

Politics as usual. To me, it seems as though the Turkish government are more or less in a 1984 situation there, with the whole world following the facts (as they were) and them attempting to present a different version of the truth, regardless of what's documented.

Woof! - Scott

[Мастер]

due to the large Armenian population of one of the senators

Was it California? That would be my guess.

but also as a way to "hurt" the war effort as Turkey would undoubtably end our access through their country.

If that is the idea (or even if it is not), it sounds to me like something that is very likely to backfire on the people trying to pull it off...

Politics as usual. To me, it seems as though the Turkish government are more or less in a 1984 situation there, with the whole world following the facts (as they were) and them attempting to present a different version of the truth, regardless of what's documented.

Pretty much, although the two countries have been trying to get things back on the right footing. I'm not sure if it was the prime minister or the president of Turkey, but one of them recently made comments calling for a reassessment of the law that makes it a crime to state that there was a genocide of the Armenians.

I seem to have some vague recollection that there was recently a Turkish author or journalist who was asked about the Armenian genocide on a television or radio program in Europe. In that particular European country, it would be a crime for him to deny that it took place, whereas under Turkish law, it would be a crime for him to say it did take place. Kind of sucks, doesn't it?

[Blue Monster 65]

In this week's Economist, there's an article addressing this same topic. It appears that some in the governments of both Armenia and Turkery are attempting to normalize relations as best they can. We'll see what comes of it.

The country you were speaking of is France, which was also the country that put the kibosh on Turkey joining the EU at this time. I believe they also have a large Armenian population.

And you're spot-on about the proposal biting our elected officials in the ass: it's a no-win situation at this point in time, so I would expect to see it tabled, with loud lamenting from all sides. Bleh! And it is CA, with Speaker Pelosi in the lovely situation of having to answer to her wealthy Armenian constituents.

Mind you, I'm not trying to dismiss the Armenian position here (far from it, actually), but I think at this point in time, a bit of sugar rather than spite would be in order to bring the Turks to the table.

Woof! - Scott

[Мастер]

In this week's Economist, there's an article addressing this same topic. It appears that some in the governments of both Armenia and Turkery are attempting to normalize relations as best they can. We'll see what comes of it.

Read the article :P

Mind you, I'm not trying to dismiss the Armenian position here (far from it, actually), but I think at this point in time, a bit of sugar rather than spite would be in order to bring the Turks to the table.

One of my Armenian(-American) friends feels the reason Turkey won't just own up to it is that they feel there will then likely be claims of compensation and territory...

[Enzo]

Maybe they could just let the Armenians set up casinos here and there. After all , that is how we handle the genocide of the past here.

[Blue Monster 65]

Perhaps leading to a genocide of the future?

Your friend may be correct, KOS. It's hard to tell what is really wanted when no one is talking out loud.

Woof! - Scott

[Heid the Ba]

I seem to have some vague recollection that there was recently a Turkish author or journalist who was asked about the Armenian genocide on a television or radio program in Europe.

Orhan Pamuk mentioned this in an interview in (I think) Switserland and all hell broke loose.

I think there has to be an acceptance that that period wasn't a barrel of laughs for anyone in the Middle East or Asiatic Regions of Russia. I think the UK is still officially responsible for the deaths of the 26 Commissars* according to Russia; and massacre was routine for the losers of battles and inhabitants of captured towns and cities.


* Not the best wiki article but I can't find another succinct summary. For example it uses the term "jew" as a nationality.

[KLA2]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0273435/

Ararat

A brilliant movie covering this topic. I recommend it.
Do not know if it is historically accurate.

What is truth.

[Мастер]

Read the article :P

I just realized this could be misinterpreted - it was a statement, I read the article, not an instruction to Blue Monster 65.

Should we now expect the rest of the world to label our treatment of the Native Americans as a genocide? Have we yet fully apologized for slavery here?

Small potatoes, compared to the Americans' unleashing of the most horrific weapon ever known on the world...

[Halcyon Dayz, FCD]

Should we now expect the rest of the world to label our treatment of the Native Americans as a genocide? Have we yet fully apologized for slavery here?

They already did. Just not on a official level.
Slavery is also considered to be an act of genocide.

Small potatoes, compared to the Americans' unleashing of the most horrific weapon ever known on the world...

Crime against Humanity, I cry...

[Blue Monster 65]

KOS speaks ... I obey ... and yet, I am not the ultimate weapon. :(



Woof! - Scott

[Enzo]

I'll never think of BT corn the same again. Maybe that is why some folks object to the US exporting genetically modified crops.