Gotta protect yourself, y'know

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Gotta protect yourself, y'know

Postby Enzo » Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:31 am

Texan kills burglars next door, citing 'castle doctrine'
David Edwards and Muriel Kane
Published: Friday November 16, 2007

A so-called "castle doctrine" law recently passed in Texas allows people to use deadly force to protect their homes and property. However, a case in which a Houston-area man in his 70's killed two apparent burglars he observed breaking into his neighbor's house has raised new questions about how far that doctrine might extend.

The man called an emergency dispatcher when he first saw the alleged burglars, saying "I've got a shotgun, do you want me to stop them?"

"Nope, don't do that," replied the dispatcher. "Ain't no property worth shooting somebody over, ok? ... I've got officers coming out there. I don't want you to go outside that house."

"I understand that," the caller replied, "but I have a right to protect myself too, sir, and you understand that. And the laws have been changed in this country since September the 1st, and you know it and I know it."

After five minutes, the dispatcher was no longer able to restrain the caller, who stepped outside and shot both men, reporting, "Here it goes, buddy. You hear the shotgun clicking and I'm going. ... Boom, you're dead. ... I had no choice."

A grand jury will decide whether the man can be charged with a crime. He will probably be found to have acted legally if it is determined that the neighbor whose house was broken into had asked him to protect his property, but not otherwise.

The Texas state senator who wrote the law said it was not meant to apply to anyone's property but your own and "is not designed to have kind of a 'Law West of the Pecos' mentality or action."

Similar laws are on the books in other states and have already given rise to a number of controversial incidents.



Where is Lonewulf when we need him.

"I have a right to protect myself..."

Let me see, protecting not yourself, not your property, not your neighbor, just HiS property. Only way this hot dog was in jeopardy at all was by knowingly inserting himself into it with forethought.

I got a feeling this guy was just waiting for an opportunity to do exactly this.

Listening to the 911 tape - played on the radio earlier - the guy was itching for it. The dispatcher tried and tried to disuade the guy. Nothing doing.

"I had no choice."
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Postby troubleagain » Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:53 pm

I think he's cooked.
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Postby Enzo » Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:27 pm

Half-baked anyway.
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Postby The Beer Slayer » Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:31 pm

See, I would have shouted: "He's coming right at me!" :twisted:
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Postby Dragon Star » Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:26 pm

:-s

I just have one thing to say, Texas is a weird, and I do mean WEIRD place sometimes.

The law extends too far, prosecute that crazy ass guy and make it your property only. He was just looking for bloodshed.
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Postby Superluminal » Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:34 am

Being Texas, it will depend alot on the jury. Were the two men actually burgarizing the house, were they a threat to the man, did they have an extensive criminal record? Jury may decide he did the world a favor by shooting them. It only takes one to hang the jury.
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Postby Enzo » Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:54 am

Oh my god, they hang juries too? I thought they only hung the bad guys.
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Postby Arneb » Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:12 am

I don't think they do anymore. But there sure must be gas chambered juries or lethally injected ones.
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Postby troubleagain » Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:11 pm

Yah, 'cause the electric chair for juries was so big it took out power all over the state when they used it. :lol:
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Postby KLA2 » Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:16 pm

Well. If that was my house being robbed, I’d tell the police I asked the neighbor to protect my house while I was away, and buy him a bottle of single malt. :lol:

On the other hand, if I had asked a couple of family members to move my piano while I was away … :evil:

At any rate, in Canada, only criminals and the police are allowed to own firearms, so that is not an issue here. :wink:
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Postby Enzo » Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:22 am

There is no hunting in Canada?
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Postby umop ap!sdn » Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:32 am

Or else only criminals and police hunt. Image
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Re: Gotta protect yourself, y'know

Postby pmcolt » Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:40 am

This guy was a fight looking for a place to happen.

A necessary condition under Texas law of using force to protect a third person's property is that force would be justified if it were the person's own property. Force is justified to protect property "when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other's...unlawful interference with the property."

Another necessary condition in this man's case is that the owner of the property asked him to protect it.

The guy didn't go out with the intent of using the degree of force necessary to terminate the burglary; his stated intent is obvious: "boom, you're dead." He's 0 for 2 under the law.

Having said that, I don't think the prosecutor will find twelve people in the state of Texas who would be willing to convict a 70 year old man for shooting two burglars.

{Of course, I'm not a lawyer, nor a Texan, nor a 70 year old man. Take my opinion for what it's worth.}
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Postby Enzo » Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:58 am

Damn whippersnapper Yankee scofflaw, anyway.
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