Remembering Hadrianople

[Мастер]

9 August 378

[Superluminal]

I'm sure Valens had better days.

[Heid the Ba]

Yeah, but this is The Empire, they had plenty worse and still lasted another 1000 years.

[Halcyon Dayz, FCD]

The Ottoman Sultans claimed the title Kaiser (as well as Caliph and Padishah).
Considering that they controlled almost all of Justinian's territory and his capital
(which they never officially renamed), and adopted several of the Roman institutions,
some would argue that the Roman Empire lasted until 1922.

:wink:

[Heid the Ba]

I'm ok with the Ottomans but can't forgive the Venetians for 1204.

Damn Ataturk, Istanbul is a fine, fine city; but how good would it be if there were still Sultans?

[Мастер]

The Ottoman Sultans claimed the title Kaiser (as well as Caliph and Padishah).
Considering that they controlled almost all of Justinian's territory and his capital
(which they never officially renamed), and adopted several of the Roman institutions,
some would argue that the Roman Empire lasted until 1922.

:wink:

Huh, I didn't know that.)

So 1922 beats any Kaiser or Цар. Are there any other contenders?

Personally, I would prefer the title "Great Kahn" to "Caesar." )

[Мастер]

I'm ok with the Ottomans but can't forgive the Venetians for 1204.

Romania

[Heid the Ba]

Sorry Master I don't follow you; I need a date.

[Мастер]

Sorry Master I don't follow you; I need a date.

Romania was the name of the crusader state installed in Constantinople in 1204. I think the same name may be used for something else these days though )

[troubleagain]

Personally, I would prefer the title "Great Kahn" to "Caesar." )

[Superluminal]

some would argue that the Roman Empire lasted until 1922.

:wink:

Edward Gibbons concludes his work with, "As long as the Coliseum stands Rome shall stand, when the Coliseum falls, Rome falls, when Rome falls, the world will fall."

I was wondering if Mactep was comparing Hadrianople to Iraq. Valens rushed into an ill advised battle, based on faulty intelligence.

[Мастер]

Edward Gibbons concludes his work with, "As long as the Coliseum stands Rome shall stand, when the Coliseum falls, Rome falls, when Rome falls, the world will fall."

Never made it to the end of Gibbons, or Mommsen

I was wondering if Mactep was comparing Hadrianople to Iraq. Valens rushed into an ill advised battle, based on faulty intelligence.

I had no such thought when posting. But feel free to compare/contrast :P

My first thought is that the modern day Mongols are coming out of it in somewhat better shape than the Romans came out of Hadrianople, but then again, we don't really know how the Iraq story ends yet...

[Heid the Ba]

Romania was the name of the crusader state installed in Constantinople in 1204. I think the same name may be used for something else these days though )

Ah, that Romania; I should have realised but we always call it the Latin Empire.

I thought you were referring to one of the other "Black Days".

[Superluminal]

A few years ago, I slogged through a 463 page version of Gibbons, "Decline and Fall". Didn't realize at the time, that what I read was actually a condensed version. The real work is 20 something volumes.

On Hadrianople, Gibbons claims Valens didn't want to share the glory with his nephew, Gratian, who was the Western emporer. So he rushed into battle and 2/3rds of his legions were destroyed.

An internet site was of the opinion Valens was acting on bad intel. Thinking he was facing a small Goth force, he force marched his legions. They arrived on the field hot, hungry and thristy. The main Goth force was nearby and quickly joined the fight and routed the Romans killing Valens in the ensuing slaughter.

Various sites list Roman loses as 15,000 or up to 40,000. We can't agree on what's going on in Iraq, so we'll probally never know what happened at Hadrianople.