Current UK News - Brief Summary

[Lianachan]

[Superluminal]

British political cartoons make American political cartoons look down right tastefull. So, who are those guys and what does that symbolize?

[Lianachan]

The chap with the Butcher's Apron undies is David Cameron, the Prime Minister of the UK. The chap who has him trussed up and is making him play his tune is Alex Salmond - the First Minister of Scotland, and leader of the Scottish National Party (currently in office as the Scottish Government). They have just announced that a referendum for Scottish Independence will be held in the Autumn of 2014 - to pull out of the United Kingdom as a fully independent country. David Cameron is trying, really rather ineffectively, to meddle in it - tying to impose conditions and suchlike - but Salmond.... well, the cartoon neatly shows what's effectively been happening so far, and where all the noises from Cameron have been coming from.

:)

[Heid the Ba]

And Gideon is now threatening that we won't be able to use Sterling as our currency, we'll have to use the Euro. I'm not convinced that would be a bad thing, though the Tories don't seem to realise there is a third option.

[Lianachan]

And Gideon is now threatening that we won't be able to use Sterling as our currency, we'll have to use the Euro. I'm not convinced that would be a bad thing, though the Tories don't seem to realise there is a third option.

Indeed. I see the BBC, both radio and TV, is already in full propaganda mode. I only expect it to get worse.

By the way, would you generally agree with my synopsis above?

[Heid the Ba]

Generally yes. There were some interesting comments on BBC Scotland Radio this morning about the overblown and simplistic nature of the Tory objections. Rhetoric about our "crippling debt" which won't actually change much, about how we won't be able to defend ourselves and how small countries can't prosper etc. It is all as if there hasn't been any recent examples of countries peacefully separating.

[Мастер]

about how we won't be able to defend ourselves

From whom?

and how small countries can't prosper etc.

Yes Switzerland is a complete dump. Singapore too.

[Heid the Ba]

about how we won't be able to defend ourselves

From whom?

Exactly. And if Cameron wants to keep Trident and nuclear weapons the English can pay for them.

and how small countries can't prosper etc.

Yes Switzerland is a complete dump. Singapore too.

And Belgium, Austria, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Croatia etc. etc. all have roughly the same population as Scotland.

[Heid the Ba]

They have just announced that a referendum for Scottish Independence will be held in the Autumn of 2014 -

I would have preferred 24th June, much more provocative . . . :D

[Lianachan]

Exactly. And if Cameron wants to keep Trident and nuclear weapons the English can pay for them.

They can relocate them to their own country, too.

And Belgium, Austria, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Croatia etc. etc. all have roughly the same population as Scotland.

Only one of those has more natural resources than Scotland, too. In terms of oil/gas/wind power/tidal power that is. Anyway, I'm firmly of the view that Scotland is a country and just not a balance sheet. Even if the economic argument for independence wasn't so strong, I'd still vote for it.

Ha! Can you imagine how much bleating there'd be if it had been on June 24th? Almost worth it.

[Мастер]

about how we won't be able to defend ourselves

From whom?

Exactly. And if Cameron wants to keep Trident and nuclear weapons the English can pay for them.

Perhaps the English are concerned that an independent Scotland would be unable to defend itself against aggression from the only country it would border

and how small countries can't prosper etc.

Yes Switzerland is a complete dump. Singapore too.

And Belgium, Austria, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Croatia etc. etc. all have roughly the same population as Scotland.[/quote]

Oh, Scotland? I misunderstood. I thought the issue was whether the United Kingdom of England, Wales and Northern Ireland could prosper.

[Halcyon Dayz, FCD]

They have just announced that a referendum for Scottish Independence will be held in the Autumn of 2014 -

As a regionalist I can only wish the Scottish people the best of luck with that.

I would have preferred 24th June, much more provocative . . . :D

*clickety-click*

You want John Bull to pop a vein?

Oh, Scotland? I misunderstood. I thought the issue was whether the United Kingdom of England, Wales and Northern Ireland could prosper.

According the the anti-EU crowd they don't need anything or anybody.

[Lianachan]

They have just announced that a referendum for Scottish Independence will be held in the Autumn of 2014 -

As a regionalist I can only wish the Scottish people the best of luck with that.

Hopefully enough of us will see the light.

I would have preferred 24th June, much more provocative . . . :D

*clickety-click*

You want John Bull to pop a vein?

I don't want to speak for my esteemed countryman, but personally... Yes. Yes I do.

Oh, Scotland? I misunderstood. I thought the issue was whether the United Kingdom of England, Wales and Northern Ireland could prosper.

According the the anti-EU crowd they don't need anything or anybody.

Aye, the Britannia-Rules-The-Waves lot. They are mistaken.

[Superluminal]

I had the privilege of being in Scottland when you had your yes-yes no-no vote way back in 97. Maybe I'll get to see you go full circle and vote for indepencance.

How long before Longshanks goes on the march?

[Enzo]

Let me know when I have to start painting my face blue...

[Arneb]

I listened to a feature about the Scottish referendum plans on Deutschlndfunk (kind of a German NPR) recently. They said that at the moment, only about a third of voters favoured independence, while a majority would probably support an intermediate model of strong regional autonomy without secession, details to be determined.

Would our esteemed Scottish nationalists share that eassessment, and do they think the intermediate solution could be acceptable?

[Мастер]

Why don't they have a referendum in England to see if they want to withdraw from the United Kingdom?

[Arneb]

Interesting question. I don't think they have the institutions to legislate one. Are there any English instituttion (exept the national sports associations) that aren't also British?

The secession of Russia from the USSR was at least legally possible, even though it brought said USSR to ana immediate collapse. But England seceding from the UK? Strange thought.

[Мастер]

I would have preferred 24th June, much more provocative . . . :D

*clickety-click*

You want John Bull to pop a vein?

Thanks for sharing the results of your search, so the rest of us didn't have to look :P

June 24, 1314 - Battle of Bannockburn, Robert the Bruce leads the Scottish to victory over England. Presumably Julian calendar, July 2 if you retroactively apply the Gregorian calendar.

[Lianachan]

Would our esteemed Scottish nationalists share that eassessment, and do they think the intermediate solution could be acceptable?

The published poll results are always very hard to interpret. The apparent results are highly dependent on who is asked, how big the sample size is, who has conducted the poll (and how they weight the results), and what form the questions took. I would estimate that the actual proportion of the population in favour of independence is around, or possibly a shade over, 50% just now.

The increased autonomy option you mention tends to get called "devo max" around here. Support for it does seem to be quite strong, but I'm pretty sure that once the full case for full independence is made then the majority if its supporters will go for that instead. Generally, in my experience, those who fancy devo max just don't know enough about independence and are still slightly swayed by the "we're too wee, too poor and too stupid to be trusted to run our own country" mantra of the media. Personally, I'm not for it. I'll have full independence, please. I would accept it, if absolutely pushed, as a step in the right direction, but if we end up with that after this exercise then it will be a massively wasted opportunity.

It may not appear as an option in the referendum anyway. The SNP originally wanted a simple yes/no to independence. It started to get discussed as an option after interest in the populace was noticed, and after unionist politicians started talking about it.

Are there any English instituttion (exept the national sports associations) that aren't also British?

Most institutions that are ostensibly English operate as British. The horribly misnamed "Bank of England" is an example.

If England was to vote on anything, it would be about throwing Scotland out of the UK. Increasing numbers of the English population would vote for that, as they labour under the misapprehension (thanks to the likes of the Daily Mail) that we are heavily subsidised and that they'll be far better off cuttung us loose. The politicians in England probably wouldn't vote for it, as they know that Scotland actually punches well above its weight financially. Even die hard unionsist politcians are now to be seen admitting that. Mind you, given that this is much better known now, they'd look pretty stupid otherwise.

[Heid the Ba]

Are there any English instituttion (exept the national sports associations) that aren't also British?

Most institutions that are ostensibly English operate as British. The horribly misnamed "Bank of England" is an example.

The reverse is also true, the BBC is essentially a London based, London centric organisation that spends national money on the rights to broadcast English football. The regional stations (including the English regions) live off the scraps.

[Lianachan]

Are there any English instituttion (exept the national sports associations) that aren't also British?

Most institutions that are ostensibly English operate as British. The horribly misnamed "Bank of England" is an example.

The reverse is also true, the BBC is essentially a London based, London centric organisation that spends national money on the rights to broadcast English football. The regional stations (including the English regions) live off the scraps.

Don't get me started.

[Heid the Ba]

Of course you view BBC Scotland as Glasgow-centric. :D

Which it is.

[Lianachan]

Of course you view BBC Scotland as Glasgow-centric. :D

Which it is.

Indeed - totally obsessed with the Old Infirm, too. Seems to like to tar all of us with the Weedgie Brush of Sectarianism. I've managed to offend quite a lot of people by calling Glasgow "Sectaria". :D