On to the Scottish referendum

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Re: On to the Scottish referendum

Postby tubeswell » Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:07 am

Мастер wrote:Wow. Civilisation decayed to the point that they can't even spell "independent" any more.


It probably doesn't even get picked up by modern spell checkers
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Re: On to the Scottish referendum

Postby Lianachan » Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:09 am

Мастер wrote:Wow. Civilisation decayed to the point that they can't even spell "independent" any more.

That would have been created by a unionist, of course, who by definition has to be at least pretty stupid.
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Re: On to the Scottish referendum

Postby Lianachan » Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:11 am

Мастер wrote:The Wikipedia page refers to the union of 1707 as "deeply unpopular" in Scotland.

Wikipedia is an awful place for Scottish history, but it does get that right. It was greeted by widespread rioting, and the general populace were passionately against it. One of the main motivations of the Jacobites was to end the union, although that tends to be obscured in the shortbread tin "young pretender" drivel we get fed about those "rebellions" (actually civil wars).
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Re: On to the Scottish referendum

Postby Мастер » Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:55 am

Lianachan wrote:
Мастер wrote:Wow. Civilisation decayed to the point that they can't even spell "independent" any more.

That would have been created by a unionist, of course, who by definition has to be at least pretty stupid.


I didn't check the wording of the referendum. Is it spelled correctly? :mrgreen:
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Re: On to the Scottish referendum

Postby Lianachan » Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:46 pm

More quality campaigning from the Better No Together Thanks (or whatever they're called this week) team.
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Re: On to the Scottish referendum

Postby Heid the Ba » Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:56 pm

I saw this advert and wondered who thought it was a good idea.
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Re: On to the Scottish referendum

Postby Мастер » Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:22 pm

Three weeks to go.
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Re: On to the Scottish referendum

Postby Lianachan » Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:08 pm

There are soooooooooooo many funny piss-takes of that video online now. Exhibits A, B and C.

Image

Image

Image
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Re: On to the Scottish referendum

Postby Мастер » Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:20 am

So, how about that poll in The Sun?
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Re: On to the Scottish referendum

Postby Lianachan » Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:00 am

Big swing towards Yes in the last couple of weeks, and that poll was conducted by the notoriously anti-independence (Tory owned) YouGov. Can't get complacent, but ALL of the movement is (and always has been) towards Yes.
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Re: On to the Scottish referendum

Postby Мастер » Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:18 am

The fellow at the pool bar, who described himself as Scottish but who now lives in Nottingham, says he can't vote, because he is not resident in Scotland. (He didn't say which way he would vote if he could.)

Which brings up a point which I am now wondering about - how do we know who is and who is not Scottish? I assume if we were ask people living throughout the UK, "Are you Scottish?", most of them would be able to answer the question without becoming too confused. But other than residence, is there any "official" notion of what it means to be Scottish? If the "yes" side were to win, would this fellow living in Nottingham be able to claim his Scottish citizenship, or would be find himself a fUK citizen?

I guess these are issues Ireland must have dealt with not quite a hundred years ago. I'm not sure what they did.

I suppose nobody wants an India/Pakistan-style separation.
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Re: On to the Scottish referendum

Postby Lianachan » Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:35 am

The only people who can vote, quite rightly, are the people who live here and are on the electoral roll - obviously, this is the case regardless of nationality/place of birth. Many Scottish born people who don't live here, my Singapore living brother included, have wailed that this is not fair and that they should get to vote. THEN you would get into the problem you've raised - who's Scottish? Who's Scottish enough, and how do you decide, etc... ? After a Yes vote, they can claim Scottish citizenship, keep British, do both, whatever.
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Re: On to the Scottish referendum

Postby Мастер » Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:44 am

Lianachan wrote:After a Yes vote, they can claim Scottish citizenship, keep British, do both, whatever.


Could any current UK citizen claim Scottish citizenship, or would one have to demonstrate sufficient "Scottishness"?

I suppose, as the England/Wales/Northern-Ireland entity inherits the title "UK", that if someone's family hasn't set foot outside the Isle of Skye for six centuries, that person could still claim UK citizenship is s/he wished to.
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Re: On to the Scottish referendum

Postby Heid the Ba » Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:51 am

I have both these arguments with my in-laws who want a vote but haven't lived in Scotland for decades and have no realistic intention of returning. My Scottish, but England born, Edinburgh resident wife gets a vote, her Scottish born but English resident sister doesn't. Essentially if you qualify to vote for the local elections you get a vote for this one. Which I am fine with, if you aren't resident then you don't get a vote. Our Polish builder who have lived in Edinburgh for six years gets one which is fine because it affects his business and family.

Afterwards is more complex since Scottishness is vague and I know several Scots who won't qualify. A bit like Spike Milligan not being British.
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Re: On to the Scottish referendum

Postby Lianachan » Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:58 am

Heid the Ba' wrote:Afterwards is more complex since Scottishness is vague and I know several Scots who won't qualify. A bit like Spike Milligan not being British.


I propose an elegant solution: If you would be eligible to play football for Scotland, you qualify :) :-) :smile:
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Re: On to the Scottish referendum

Postby Мастер » Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:08 am

Lianachan wrote:I propose an elegant solution: If you would be eligible to play football for Scotland, you qualify :) :-) :smile:


Is skill at football required to be eligible to play football for Scotland? :mrgreen:
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Re: On to the Scottish referendum

Postby Lianachan » Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:20 am

It's rapidly becoming the only requirement. If you can play football and demonstrate a tolerance of shortbread then you're good.
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Re: On to the Scottish referendum

Postby Arneb » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:09 pm

Interesting discussion here.

In Germany, even after the Nazi horror, eligibility to be recognized as German still hinges on ethnicity (apart, of course, from naturalization). We had an influx of thousands of descendants of German settlers of Eastern Europe after the War, and even more so, after the collapse of th Warsaw Pact: Baltic Germans, Volga Germans (often deported to Siberia), Hungarian Germans, Bannat Suebians, Transylvanian ("Siebenbürgen") Germans, etc. There was a joke in the 90s, when many Russian citizens with a remote German ancestry but a thoroughly Russian cultural upbringing emigrated to Germany as "Spätaussiedler" (late emigrants), that you qualified for German citizenship if one of your ancestors had owned a German shepherd.
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Re: On to the Scottish referendum

Postby Мастер » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:12 pm

Arneb wrote:Interesting discussion here.

In Germany, even after the Nazi horror, eligibility to be recognized as German still hinges on ethnicity (apart, of course, from naturalization). We had an influx of thousands of descendants of German settlers of Eastern Europe after the War, and even more so, after the collapse of th Warsaw Pact: Baltic Germans, Volga Germans (often deported to Siberia), Hungarian Germans, Bannat Suebians, Transylvanian ("Siebenbürgen") Germans, etc. There was a joke in the 90s, when many Russian citizens with a remote German ancestry but a thoroughly Russian cultural upbringing emigrated to Germany as "Spätaussiedler" (late emigrants), that you qualified for German citizenship if one of your ancestors had owned a German shepherd.


I had actually started to look into that at one point, but I'm not sure whether I would have qualified, and there was essentially no point anyway . . .
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Re: On to the Scottish referendum

Postby Heid the Ba » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:58 pm

I had a Black Forest gateau once . . .
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Re: On to the Scottish referendum

Postby Lance » Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:18 pm

Poodles were originally bred in Germany. Do we qualify?
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Re: On to the Scottish referendum

Postby Мастер » Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:40 pm

Lance wrote:Poodles were originally bred in Germany. Do we qualify?


Perhaps the dogs do.
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Re: On to the Scottish referendum

Postby Arneb » Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:12 pm

Lance wrote:Poodles were originally bred in Germany. Do we qualify?

You shouldbe fine, yes. But beware, we've got mandatory health insurance, an identity card to be carried at all times, stiff gun laws, and neither nuclear wapons nor the death penalty. AND we have the NSA watching your every step, just like in the States.
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Re: On to the Scottish referendum

Postby Lance » Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:41 pm

Well, I like guns and nukes... I'll have to think about it.
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Re: On to the Scottish referendum

Postby Arneb » Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:42 pm

I thought that might make you hesitate. Better safe than sorry.
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