On to the Scottish referendum

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They're ragging on the author of this piece in the comments section for equating "Ulster" and "Northern Ireland", which is apparently incorrect.

The thing that I notice is the caption under the photo, referring to the "Great Britain flag". WTF? I thought the flag in the photo was the flag of England.

[Heid the Ba]

It is incorrect, but it is perfectly clear that he meant Unionist Ulster and not the province, part of which is in the south.

The cross of St George is the English one, the Saltire is ours and the Butcher's Apron* is the "Great Britain" one so the caption is correct.

*On a related note in my soon to be published wargamer's guide to the Sudan Wars of 1882-1899 I have slipped the term "Butcher's Apron" in twice and as far as I can tell the English editors are either ok with it or have no idea what it means. They tend to either "correct" things they don't understand without checking or simply ignore them.

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So if Scotland is successful, will Wales and England follow suit, leaving only Northern Ireland in the fUK?

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*On a related note in my soon to be published wargamer's guide to the Sudan Wars of 1882-1899 I have slipped the term "Butcher's Apron" in twice and as far as I can tell the English editors are either ok with it or have no idea what it means. They tend to either "correct" things they don't understand without checking or simply ignore them.

Well good luck with that :) I do not think I have heard the term outside of IRU. Is it popular?

[Heid the Ba]

More popular in the Lianachanlands of the Frozen North since that is where most of the butchery happened. One reference is out as that paragraph has been excised but as of the final proof the other is still there.

[MM_Dandy]

It's interesting to me that the Union Jack doesn't incorporate any Welsh elements - according to the all-knowing Wikipedia, it's a combination of the former flags of Scotland, England, and Ireland (update: ah, Wales was already part of England in 1606). It also mentions that there doesn't seem to be much concern over changing it in the event that Scotland secedes.

Anyway, I've no idea if Wales shares the same status as (for now) Scotland, England, and/or Northern Ireland. However, if Scotland does secede, then I don't think it would be a bad idea to change it to exclude the Scottish bits and include some Welsh bits; kill 2 birds with one stone, so to speak.

[Heid the Ba]

Wales has its own legislature like Scotland does but I don't think there is the same call for independence, I could be wrong about that though.

I currently think enough people will be bought off or chicken out that it will be a narrow "No" result, but I could be wrong about that as well.

[MM_Dandy]

Least I Could Do weighs in. An "Independent Scotland will have no/a great economy" argument has broken out in the comments. It should be noted that the people responsible for LICD are Canadian, while the characters and locations in the strip are mostly American. Comments, of course, come from anywhere.

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Wales has its own legislature like Scotland does but I don't think there is the same call for independence, I could be wrong about that though.

I did some research at Google U earlier, and most sources seemed to suggest support for independence was generally in the 10-20% range.

If Scotland secedes and does well - well, maybe that could encourage a lot of Welsh.

I currently think enough people will be bought off or chicken out that it will be a narrow "No" result, but I could be wrong about that as well.

The day of judgement is at hand!

[Heid the Ba]

And I will be in Spain on the glorious day! Hurrah for postal votes, mine was cast last week.

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And I will be in Spain on the glorious day!

Well, assuming it is glorious . . .

[Heid the Ba]

Ok, I'll be in Spain on the 18th.

A friend of a friend was at Smug Davie's talk in Edinburgh today and said he was very emotional about it, which is nice but it doesn't make him right.

[Heid the Ba]

At least some of the press articles I'm reading are suggesting that this rather heavy-handed approach might be backfiring. Too far from the thick of it to really be able to judge myself . . .

It is definitely backfiring as it showed up their arrogance while ahead and the fact they had no plan if it ended close.

[Arneb]

Yeah, like, you know, Scottish independence will, like, totally break my heart, and, uumph, I, I , that has nothinng, like, you know, nothing to do with the fact that, eeeph, my party will mince me balls and hang them from the door of no. 10 if I, like, don't prevent your secession. Sorry, I peed my pants.

Just stay, OK. I mean, I love you all, don't I.

[Heid the Ba]

Exactly, Cameron won't survive if we get independence. Boris Johnson the current Mayor of London is making a run to get back into parliament and become PM. Which will be a complete change as he was the year above Davie at Eton and Oxford so another man of the people.

[tubeswell]

I realised this morning that:

Liz 1 (who reigned for many-a-year and presided over the defeat of the Spanish Armada) presided over the integration of the thrones (and ultimately the union) of Scotland and England by having her Cousin Mary Queen of Scots beheaded, and not having any babies herself.



whereas her 'descendant' and namesake Liz 2 (who has reigned for many-a-year, and presided over Baroness Thatcher's less-glorious Falkland Island conflict) it appears may be presiding over the imminent dissolution of the union



(Okay, so that 2nd picture was a little unfortunate)

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Article at the BBC web site.

Angus Grossart, chairman of merchant bank Noble Grossart, said that people should "not panic" following the decisions made by the two banks. He told the Financial Times that the impact of a Yes vote was "severely overstated".

[Heid the Ba]

The head of Aberdeen Asset Management said the same thing. I'm actually finding the BBC more even handed now, perhaps they realised how out of step they were.

[pedant mode]Liz 2 is actually Liz 2 and 1, as Liz 1 was never queen of Scotland. But the current Liz over-rode precedent and our objections.[/pedant mode]

[Heid the Ba]

It is odd that the No campaign says if we go we’ll be over-run with immigrants but also that we’ll be among the poorest countries in Europe. Maybe I should go to BAUT U to have the economics of that explained to me.

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It is odd that the No campaign says if we go we’ll be over-run with immigrants but also that we’ll be among the poorest countries in Europe. Maybe I should go to BAUT U to have the economics of that explained to me.

No one goes to that restaurant anymore, it's too crowded.

The head of Aberdeen Asset Management said the same thing. I'm actually finding the BBC more even handed now, perhaps they realised how out of step they were.

[pedant mode]Liz 2 is actually Liz 2 and 1, as Liz 1 was never queen of Scotland. But the current Liz over-rode precedent and our objections.[/pedant mode]

Wow, so they kept up the separate numbering schemes even after the United Kingdom was established?

It seems to me 1066 was a reset - a while later, there was an Edward I, even though there were pre-1066 and post-Alfred Edwards.

[Heid the Ba]

James VI and I was VI of Scotland, I of Great Britain. Offhand I can't think of any before Current Liz who shared a name with a monarch of either country.

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James VI and I was VI of Scotland, I of Great Britain. Offhand I can't think of any before Current Liz who shared a name with a monarch of either country.

I just checked here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_monarchs

We have a lot of Georges, an Anne, and a Victoria, which look like they are unique to the United Kingdom. But there is also a William IV and two Edwards, then Lizzy.

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Just reading up a bit on this, but I found something telling me that the kings of the UK gave up their claim to the French throne after the French king's head was cut off.

[tubeswell]

James VI and I was VI of Scotland, I of Great Britain. Offhand I can't think of any before Current Liz who shared a name with a monarch of either country.

I just checked here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_monarchs

We have a lot of Georges, an Anne, and a Victoria, which look like they are unique to the United Kingdom. But there is also a William IV and two Edwards, then Lizzy.

Indeed, Kaiser Wilhelm II was not the first monarch to claim an ancestral precedent when he talked about the Merry Wives of Sax-Coburg and Gotha

[MM_Dandy]

Mona Chalabi at FiveThirtyEight speculates that the postal vote are more likely to have been cast for the "No" side.