What the fuck happened to the U.S.A.?

[Lance]

Have I been delusional all this time and we've always been this fucked up?

I used to be a "My Country Right or Wrong" conservative. "Proud to be an American" and "Born in the USA" were my theme songs.

But then I grew up, and started paying attention. And now I just get more and more disgusted all the time. This presidential election cycle has give us Donald Trump, who is more racist and xenophobic every day, and the fucking people love him. There have been a couple of pieces of research done. Based on blog and Facebook postings, evaluating vocabulary, grammar and unique word usage, it has been determined that left leaning voters display a slightly higher intelligence than right leaning voters. In a separate study, it was demonstrated that among the reich right, the higher your level of education the less likely you are to support Trump. So his base is composed of the dumbest of the dumb and he is leading all other candidates in all polls.

He actually has a shot. What the fuck?

Then I see shit like this on Facebook: (My response below it)

I've replied to it, and actually created my own meme from it.

We also speak Russian, Polish, Spanish, Cherokee and 306 other languages.

Some of us are vegetarians, wine drinkers and pacifists.

If you think America is defined only by who YOU are then you don't understand America at all.

What the fuck is wrong with us? When did THAT become what America is about? Have I been naïve or is this a recent change?

I'm not proud anymore. I am saddened and disgusted.

Okay, I'm done. Time to go beat a broad, run over a few spics and maybe lynch a few niggers for fun.

[Мастер]

Have I been delusional all this time and we've always been this fucked up?

I used to be a "My Country Right or Wrong" conservative. "Proud to be an American" and "Born in the USA" were my theme songs.

But then I grew up, and started paying attention. And now I just get more and more disgusted all the time. This presidential election cycle has give us Donald Trump, who is more racist and xenophobic every day, and the fucking people love him. There have been a couple of pieces of research done. Based on blog and Facebook postings, evaluating vocabulary, grammar and unique word usage, it has been determined that left leaning voters display a slightly higher intelligence than right leaning voters. In a separate study, it was demonstrated that among the reich right, the higher your level of education the less likely you are to support Trump. So his base is composed of the dumbest of the dumb and he is leading all other candidates in all polls.

Keep in mind that Richard Nixon would have been considered a left-winger today.

Come to Asia. We have freedom here. And economic opportunity. Of course, if you do, the global dictatorship will try to prevent you from opening a bank account outside of their country (FATCA) and also inside of it (PATRIOT ACT), so you might have to carry around gold bars to pay for things. And there's always a chance they might attack us. They still claim the right to assassinate us, without evidence of anything.

[Lance]

But in Asia, wouldn't I lose my "White Privilege"?

[Мастер]

But in Asia, wouldn't I lose my "White Privilege"?

I think you might be more privileged here than there.

[Lance]

I've never seriously considered leaving here, until recently. If Trump actually wins, I can't see how I could stay.

[Мастер]

If Trump actually wins, I can't see how I could stay.

Some of your neighbours might not have a choice in the matter!

[Мастер]

But, as someone who's been an exile just about his entire life - it's not that bad

[Lance]

I guess there's Canada.

[Enzo]

Let's stay in focus.

fucking people love him.

Not quite. 28% (or whatever it is) of the interested Republican voters love him. Most of the other republicans hate him, and certainly so do we on the left and most anyone else. They make a lot of noise and get on TV, sure. But it is the old same story on TV. A storm comes through and blows down ONE tree in the whole area, and that evening the TV reporter is standing in front of it for a report. It isn't representative, just attention getting.

We talked of this somewhere else recently. I asked them, who gathers more viewers, Meet the Press, or world Wide Wrestling federation? What gathers more onlookers, the Science Quiz Bowl on public TV or a big car crash at a busy shopping mall?

Trump is a hustler, a PT Barnum. He is good at using the media for attention. I think he is really not unlike Chumlee on Pawn Stars. Not very bright, but the consummate hustler.

In a previous election cycle, one analyst told us that the best predictor of outcome was not asking who the people would vote for, but rather who they thought would win. When you go looking for Trump supporters, I am sure you can find them. I don't see much research on who people think will win.

There is a lot of anti-Hillary out there, and it might be comforting to see Trump as an alternative. But when it comes down to it on election day, and having to actually pull the Trump lever, all of a sudden the idea that Hillary might be less likely to drag us down seems more reasonable.

[Lance]

There are still what, a dozen Republican candidates? All polling in the single to low double digits. What happens to their supporters as the field narrows? If they get behind the more moderate candidates and Trump fades into the background, great. And I do believe that is likely. There are no Republican candidates that I could back but there are certainly the "least worst" among them. A couple, anyway. If they move their support to Trump, however, he could actually become the nominee.

The most recent polls show Hillary slightly edging out Trump in a head to head competition but Sanders would beat Trump by a greater margin. Problem there is that I don't think Sanders can get the nomination. Of course, a Hillary vs. Trump race would, I think, have a very high turnout. And when more people vote, the left generally does better.

I guess we shall see. But I can't help but worry, we are a stupid people. Who knows what we are capable of? I mean look, we elected GWB fucking TWICE.

[tubeswell]

I guess there's Canada.

LoL

[Мастер]

There is a lot of anti-Hillary out there, and it might be comforting to see Trump as an alternative. But when it comes down to it on election day, and having to actually pull the Trump lever, all of a sudden the idea that Hillary might be less likely to drag us down seems more reasonable.

That can be her campaign slogan. "Less likely to drag us down than Trump!"

But, we will find out in eleven months.

[Heid the Ba]

As an outsider it seems to be getting worse. There was always the American this, American that, USA! USA! crowd which smacked of insecurity but that seems to have been replaced by real fear. My suspicion is that it is the realisation that for all the wealth and power the US really can't project power in any meaningful way and that all attempts to do so simply make the problems worse. That and the realisation that the US is usually viewed as a bully rather than a protector, often for the reasons Mactep gave, doesn't help.

As campaign slogans go, "less shite than him!" isn't the worst.

[Heid the Ba]

As an aside I sometimes argue that you don't speak English, you speak a simplified version that was dumbed down so the immigrants could learn it. That goes about as well as you would expect. [sweeping generalisation]Of course the children of those immigrants don't seem to like immigrants. [/sweeping generalisation]

[Мастер]

[sweeping generalisation]Of course the children of those immigrants don't seem to like immigrants. [/sweeping generalisation]

OMFG. The amount of polemic I heard in my youth about how foreigners are destroying America, delivered in heavy German and Russian accents . . .

[Мастер]

I guess there's Canada.

Well, there was. Perhaps you're not keeping up on the latest Canadian current events?

[Heid the Ba]

[sweeping generalisation]Of course the children of those immigrants don't seem to like immigrants. [/sweeping generalisation]

OMFG. The amount of polemic I heard in my youth about how foreigners are destroying America, delivered in heavy German and Russian accents . . .

I heard a Little Englander who lives in Spain say, completely seriously: "Yeah, I had to leave England because there are too many immigrants . . ." I probably don't need to point out that he doesn't speak a word of Spanish.

[Enzo]

I think we Americans used to be a lot more naïve about our government. We believed the USA stood for all the clichés like freedom, and we had the USSR bogeyman to loathe. But as we learn more and more, we find we are doing all those things we used to curse the USSR for. We are not as cock-sure as we once were, we are not the white hat good guys we always thought. We find we are not spreading democracy, we are protecting oil. We insert ourselves into other governments, even supporting revolutions and assassinations

used to be our might got us out of anything, we faced the Germans and the Japanese at the same time in WW2, and we came out of it without our country all blown up. But today, we are less able to just blow something up and go home winners. The Germans patrolled our shores in U-boats and sank ships. The Japanese efforts were relatively feeble when it got to our shores, but that is as far as it got here. Today, our enemies can breach our borders, because they don't use columns of tanks and marching armies. That makes it much more real.

China was a sleeping giant that woke up, we fear them.

Frankly, when it comes to US foreign policy, I am made to think of the tavern. We all know someone who was bigger than everyone else growing up, and turned into a bully. The kind of guy who'd walk up to your bar stool and tell you to move, he wanted to sit there. The guy who liked to push people around. He's young and in shape, maybe played football. But eventually, he turns 50 or 60, and he still rants and raves from his bar stool, and threatens people, but no one takes him seriously any more. "Yeah, sure, old man, you'll kick my ass..." I somehow see the USA as becoming that guy around the world.

And Americans can't seem to understand scale and context. A couple kids blow away a dozen people at a school or somewhere, and we go nuts. But way more than that are killed by guns every day, yet we don't concern ourselves about that. Terrorists kill 3000 in the twin towers, and it takes over. But we kill more than that every month on our highways. We are scared shitless that a terrorist or two will get into our country, but have no desire to end 480,000 smoking related deaths per year. SO with such innumeracy, we are huddled in fear at the world of today.

So fire up the microphones and spout xenophobic nonsense and the idiots lap it up.

[Мастер]

And Americans can't seem to understand scale and context. A couple kids blow away a dozen people at a school or somewhere, and we go nuts. But way more than that are killed by guns every day, yet we don't concern ourselves about that. Terrorists kill 3000 in the twin towers, and it takes over. But we kill more than that every month on our highways. We are scared shitless that a terrorist or two will get into our country, but have no desire to end 480,000 smoking related deaths per year. SO with such innumeracy, we are huddled in fear at the world of today.

Don't every try to explain this to anyone, they will immediately proclaim that you are an idiot.

More than 3,000 Americans have been killed by the "war on terror". And many, many times more Iraqis, if that actually matters . . .

[Heid the Ba]

I think there is a general trend to scaremongering and stupidity, not just in the US. The road bridge over the Forth is closed at the moment as there is a 20mm stress fracture in a beam. The work to repair this will start this week and take two weeks weather permitting. The engineers say this, the politicians say this, the bridge operators say this. You would not believe how many people tell me the bridge will never re-open because they saw a post on Facebook. Or the cost will be ninehundredandeleventybillion pounds because their brother read it on twitter. Or the bridge will fall because they have seen a photoshopped picture of a massive crack with a family of immigrants living in it. You can't argue because they will simply take out their 'phone and show you the post. In due course when they are wrong it will be forgotten about because there will be something else shiny to look at.

It seems to me that there is no sense of memory or responsibility as long as there is something to be part of. Remember Kony 2012? Half the people who posted can't remember if they were for it or against it, only it was something to do with child soldiers but they don't recall if Kony was the problem or the answer. They then moved on to ice bucket challenges which somehow failed to cure cancer while raising no money. And so on. I hate people.

[Lianachan]

Vaguely related - Scott Adams' view of what Trump is up to.

[Heid the Ba]

Interesting viewpoint but don't read the comments, the stupid, it burns!

"As someone else, a UK outsider, I agree with you and consider "blacklord" a complete moron for thinking that gun control is relevant to any criminal or terrorist with money. All "gun control" does is increase the number of fatalities caused by people who ignore said "gun control". "Gun free zone" means "Only murderers, thieves and terrorists have guns around here".
The more muslims invade Europe, the more I resent the antichrist Tony Blair taking all our guns away"

Tony Blair did what?

[Lance]

I hate people.

More and more every day.

[Lianachan]

Same here.

I haven't read that Scott Adams piece yet, I'd just been sent a link to it by one of my troops and shoved it straight on here. So if he's talking a load of shite, it's not that I endorse his view by posting it. If he's talking perfect sense, of course, then I do .

[Heid the Ba]

It is a reasoned piece about cost/risk analysis for keeping out terrorists. The comments are the hatstand bit.