President Elect Donald J. Trump

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Re: President Elect Donald J. Trump

Postby Мастер » Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:45 am

Lance wrote:This may help: List of United States presidential elections by popular vote margin. Funny, I was just looking at this a few minutes ago.

Apparently Trump has a new record; LOSING the popular vote count by the greatest margin but still winning the election.


Without checking the sources and how they got their count, this person is showing a much narrower margin:

http://presidentelect.us/2016/

It's a different category, but as your source indicates, Abraham Lincoln received the job with less than 40% of the popular vote :shock:
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Re: President Elect Donald J. Trump

Postby Halcyon Dayz, FCD » Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:50 pm

Мастер wrote:
Lance wrote:Abraham Lincoln received the job with less than 40% of the popular vote :shock:

That was a four-way split.
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Re: President Elect Donald J. Trump

Postby Lance » Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:56 pm

Мастер wrote:Without checking the sources and how they got their count, this person is showing a much narrower margin:

http://presidentelect.us/2016/

I think that's just old. It was true a while back but the current counts are higher than that on both sides. That site is also awarding Michigan to Trump, which hasn't officially been decided yet. The margin in MI is down to around 10K votes in favor of Trump, but has been narrowing.
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Re: President Elect Donald J. Trump

Postby Мастер » Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:41 pm

Halcyon Dayz, FCD wrote:
Мастер wrote:
Lance wrote:Abraham Lincoln received the job with less than 40% of the popular vote :shock:

That was a four-way split.


So was this one :mrgreen:
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Re: President Elect Donald J. Trump

Postby Мастер » Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:30 am

"imperfect Christian" - that's an interesting way to describe the man with the golden dome. Said by a speaker at this mini-forum I dropped in on.
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Re: President Elect Donald J. Trump

Postby Lance » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:23 am

I heard something similar to: "The people who once told us Obama was a Muslim are the same ones now telling us Trump is a Christian."
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Re: President Elect Donald J. Trump

Postby Enzo » Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:33 am

trump gets Michigan. The only hold up is that when the initial doubt arose, we have to wait for the official certification, which will occur later this month. The date is already set, not subject to change. When they meet, they will certify for Trump. I suppose the democrats could sue for an official recount, but there is no point in that, it wouldn;t change the outcome of the election.


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Re: President Elect Donald J. Trump

Postby Мастер » Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:08 am

Enzo wrote:if Trump is a Christian, then I am the King of Zimbabwe.


Zimbabwe's a republic.
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Re: President Elect Donald J. Trump

Postby Lance » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:31 pm

Well, according to USA Today as of 3 hours ago, the Michigan votes are still being counted and Trumps lead is still decreasing.

But I don't mean to suggest I am holding out hope here. Just that it's still a thing.
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Re: President Elect Donald J. Trump

Postby tubeswell » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:51 pm

Lance wrote:... the Michigan votes are still being counted and Trumps lead is still decreasing...


Assuming this were true, what difference would it make if he lost Michigan?
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Re: President Elect Donald J. Trump

Postby Lance » Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:31 pm

There is still the "faithless electors" thing, where the electors are being lobbied to change their votes. If MI were to go to Hillary then it would take 16 less to change their votes. Still unlikely, but a little less so.
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Re: President Elect Donald J. Trump

Postby Enzo » Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:15 pm

And can we safely assume all faithless electors will be faithless the same direction?
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Re: President Elect Donald J. Trump

Postby g-one » Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:06 pm

Odds for impeachment/resignation have dropped from 3:1 to 9:4 (before end of 1st term)

https://sports.ladbrokes.com/en-gb/bett ... 222881036/
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Re: President Elect Donald J. Trump

Postby Lance » Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:34 am

Enzo wrote:And can we safely assume all faithless electors will be faithless the same direction?

This is like the College of Cardinals selecting the Pope. They select from themselves but are not bound to. They can select any male on the planet. Heck, I could be the next pope if I were younger, cuter, and could spend more time on my knees.

The Electoral College members can cast their votes for anyone. So while it is highly unlikely they will select Hillary, they could select another, more moderate Republican. They could also select 2 or 3. If none have the required 270 votes then it goes to the congress and they select from the top 3 vote getters. So they could send, for example, Paul Ryan and 1 or 2 others and let congress decide from among them. Or they could just select Paul Ryan outright.

This is the mechanism the founding fathers implemented for exactly this reason; to keep someone like Trump from reaching the presidency. Now we just have to see if it works. But I doubt it. The electors are all political appointees now, so will probably tow the party line.
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Re: President Elect Donald J. Trump

Postby Мастер » Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:38 am

Some of them also have legal penalties imposed under their respective state laws if they break faith.

I do not know whether the legality of these penalties has ever been established in court.
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Re: President Elect Donald J. Trump

Postby Lance » Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:52 am

Мастер wrote:Some of them also have legal penalties imposed under their respective state laws if they break faith.

I do not know whether the legality of these penalties has ever been established in court.

I don't think they've ever been tested but everyone I've heard talk about it, including Constitutional scholars, believe any attempt at punishing an elector would fail quickly.
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Re: President Elect Donald J. Trump

Postby g-one » Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:31 pm

Today those odds are down to 10/2.
He's been hinting that 'she did win the popular vote' so maybe he'll get cold feet. ;)
And more conspiracy theories with regard to 'rigged' votes:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 33091.html
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Re: President Elect Donald J. Trump

Postby Lance » Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:25 pm

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Re: President Elect Donald J. Trump

Postby Enzo » Thu Nov 24, 2016 1:06 am

believe any attempt at punishing an elector would fail quickly.


I think it is more like cheating on your wife. They can't really arrest you for it, but you sure as hell can be penalized for it.
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Re: President Elect Donald J. Trump

Postby Lance » Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:29 am

Enzo wrote:
believe any attempt at punishing an elector would fail quickly.

I think it is more like cheating on your wife. They can't really arrest you for it, but you sure as hell can be penalized for it.

The analysts on CNN have said that any attempt to punish an elector would be unconstitutional because basically, it's their job. The whole Hamilton thing and all...
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Re: President Elect Donald J. Trump

Postby Enzo » Thu Nov 24, 2016 7:08 am

Yes, that would be official punishment. But how about they do that job, cross the line to vote the other way. Now they won;t wind up in court, but they will also never see a position of trust in the party again. If I send you to Washington to represent me, and you don't, I sure won;t be sending you again.

Just as if I cheat on my wife and get caught. She might not divorce me, but I surely would lose companionship, affection, trust, etc. I call that being penalized.
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Re: President Elect Donald J. Trump

Postby Мастер » Thu Nov 24, 2016 7:25 am

Enzo wrote:Yes, that would be official punishment. But how about they do that job, cross the line to vote the other way. Now they won;t wind up in court, but they will also never see a position of trust in the party again. If I send you to Washington to represent me, and you don't, I sure won;t be sending you again.

Just as if I cheat on my wife and get caught. She might not divorce me, but I surely would lose companionship, affection, trust, etc. I call that being penalized.


It could depend on what "the other way" is. I would assume any Republican elector who voted for Clinton would be a permanent pariah within his/her party. But they could also vote for another Republican.

It only matters if they can get Trump down to 269. If they do that without switching to Clinton, then the congress decides in a special voting procedure that (at this particular point of time) heavily favours Republicans. If that happens, they could just return Trump again, or they could choose whatever alternate Republican gets the votes. From the Republican establishment, that might result in reward rather than penalty.

But they need so many, it seems rather unlikely.
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Re: President Elect Donald J. Trump

Postby Lance » Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:39 pm

Мастер wrote:But they need so many, it seems rather unlikely.

Yup. I think the best shot would be to select another, popular Republican. There would have to be a concerted effort among them. But in this situation, I agree they are more likely to be rewarded.

I don't think anyone believes they'd swing to Hillary anymore.
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Re: President Elect Donald J. Trump

Postby Lance » Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:08 am

Apparently it has been noticed that 3 Wisconsin precincts reported more votes for Trump than the total number of votes cast in the precinct. This is triggering a state-wide recount.

In news elsewhere, Trump's lead over Hillary has now dropped below 10K in Michigan and continues to fall.

I'm actually beginning to have a little hope again. Not much, but a little.
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Re: President Elect Donald J. Trump

Postby Мастер » Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:55 am

Lance wrote:Apparently it has been noticed that 3 Wisconsin precincts reported more votes for Trump than the total number of votes cast in the precinct. This is triggering a state-wide recount.


Now there are some very enthusiastic Trump voters!

Lance wrote:I'm actually beginning to have a little hope again. Not much, but a little.


Yes, I think this is pretty much clutching at straws.

A somewhat bigger straw might be the possibility that it won't actually be that bad, as it's only been a few weeks since the election, and he's already backtracked on an awful lot of his positions . . .
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