Illuminati-R-Us

MM_Dandy wrote:Whatever in the world could the jury still be deliberating is beyond me.

g-one wrote:

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Мастер wrote:I've never understood why this giant-sized twat wanted to be president in the first place.

His life must have been pretty good. Enough money to do just about whatever he likes, he could be enjoying retirement if he likes, or continuing in his business ventures if that's his preference. Either one of those strike me as better than being subject to the breath of every fool.

Now, leaving office in disgrace, and possibly even dying in prison, don't seem like completely unrealistic possibilities.

Heid the Ba wrote:Carter's book, called "The Three Emperors" here, had mixed reviews and I must admit I found it a bit dull, she has a habit of telling you everything she knows but not why you should know it. There are valid parallels between Trump and Wilhelm II, but also between Trump and Edward VIII or Churchill. The nature of empire and monarchy was changed by the Great War with four empires (arguably five if you include Britain) not surviving so it was that rather than the Kaiser which caused problems. The Austro-Hungarian Empire was shattered beyond repair though lead at the end by a competent, amiable man, the Turks had been led by an ineffectual Sultan and became a secular republic, Russia was lead by an emperor every bit as ineffectual as the Kaiser, though personally charming. I think Carter is seeing some connections but ignoring others, and also ignoring differences. For all the recent societal changes in the last few decades I don't think they add up to a similar threat to the style of government.

I'm assuming the final sentence is a suggestion that after Trump comes Hitler, but in Germany there was fifteen years, hyperinflation, the Great Depression etc. between the two. The US would have to suffer some apocalyptic crisis of confidence for that to follow.

If Trump goes and is replaced by Pence then you replace uncertainty and erratic behaviour with someone who is just as dangerous but at least stable. Pence is a true believer and a horrible person but he seems to realise that keeping treaty obligations and having friends abroad is important. If Trump sees out his term and is replaced by a democrat then there should be a return to a more balanced government. The electorate is another matter, that genie is out of the bottle and it may take a generation or more to get back to where they were, particularly since the Republicans are filling every judge's position with any bigot they can find. If the Democrats manage their Blue Wave in November then we will find out just how autocratic Trump and Pence are prepared to be.

Heid the Ba wrote:Carter's book, called "The Three Emperors" here, had mixed reviews and I must admit I found it a bit dull, she has a habit of telling you everything she knows but not why you should know it. There are valid parallels between Trump and Wilhelm II, but also between Trump and Edward VIII or Churchill. The nature of empire and monarchy was changed by the Great War with four empires (arguably five if you include Britain) not surviving so it was that rather than the Kaiser which caused problems. The Austro-Hungarian Empire was shattered beyond repair though lead at the end by a competent, amiable man, the Turks had been led by an ineffectual Sultan and became a secular republic, Russia was lead by an emperor every bit as ineffectual as the Kaiser, though personally charming. I think Carter is seeing some connections but ignoring others, and also ignoring differences. For all the recent societal changes in the last few decades I don't think they add up to a similar threat to the style of government.

I'm assuming the final sentence is a suggestion that after Trump comes Hitler, but in Germany there was fifteen years, hyperinflation, the Great Depression etc. between the two. The US would have to suffer some apocalyptic crisis of confidence for that to follow.

If Trump goes and is replaced by Pence then you replace uncertainty and erratic behaviour with someone who is just as dangerous but at least stable. Pence is a true believer and a horrible person but he seems to realise that keeping treaty obligations and having friends abroad is important. If Trump sees out his term and is replaced by a democrat then there should be a return to a more balanced government. The electorate is another matter, that genie is out of the bottle and it may take a generation or more to get back to where they were, particularly since the Republicans are filling every judge's position with any bigot they can find. If the Democrats manage their Blue Wave in November then we will find out just how autocratic Trump and Pence are prepared to be.

Arneb wrote:I couldn't have put it nearly as well. Comparing the characters and then saying, just look what came of it is tempting, but today's U.S. (and basically, all the world) is a very, very far apart from 19th century Germany. Also, I don't think that anyone who wants to be taken seriously gives Willi zwo sole responsibility for WWI - or for Hitler, for that matter.

Adding to 15 years, hyperinflation, the Great Depression I'd name the treaty of Versailles. That humiliation brought a horrible payback.

Heid the Ba wrote:I'm assuming the final sentence is a suggestion that after Trump comes Hitler, but in Germany there was fifteen years, hyperinflation, the Great Depression etc. between the two. The US would have to suffer some apocalyptic crisis of confidence for that to follow.

g-one wrote:that he is partly just a symptom of.

g-one wrote:I took the last line to be implying that simply getting rid of Trump would not necessarily resolve the current climate, as there are underlying issues that he is partly just a symptom of.