President Donald J. Trump

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Arneb » Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:49 am

There is no level of stupidity that the current Rpeublican party is unwilling to outbid. 18% of Republican voters think Biden is the legitimate President. Jesus fucking Christ.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Enzo » Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:38 pm

U am actually thinking a third party could form. Trump took over the republicans, with his MAGA hat brownshirts, but there are thousands of people who have left the party, the Lincoln Project types, who still have basic conservative values. I can see them forming a new conservative party and leaving the Trump idiots to wither on the vine.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Arneb » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:08 pm

I've always thought there might be a market for that in America, you know, free market, small state, free trade, socially conservative, but basically rational and - what was Dubya's slogan again - compassionate. But if Donald Trump turns out record numbers of voters against a candidate who hasn't eaten a conservative in four decades in the Senate, I'm doubting it. There must be 60 million people out there who voted and actuall think the election was rigged. Everything's uphill against that kind of wilfull ignorance.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Мастер » Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:01 pm

Enzo wrote:U am actually thinking a third party could form. Trump took over the republicans, with his MAGA hat brownshirts, but there are thousands of people who have left the party, the Lincoln Project types, who still have basic conservative values. I can see them forming a new conservative party and leaving the Trump idiots to wither on the vine.


I’ve been thinking the Republican Party would split since the late 1980s :)
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Мастер » Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:15 pm

Arneb wrote:I've always thought there might be a market for that in America, you know, free market, small state, free trade, socially conservative, but basically rational and - what was Dubya's slogan again - compassionate. But if Donald Trump turns out record numbers of voters against a candidate who hasn't eaten a conservative in four decades in the Senate, I'm doubting it. There must be 60 million people out there who voted and actuall think the election was rigged. Everything's uphill against that kind of wilfull ignorance.


I think Nixon would be regarded as far left by many Republicans today.

The sort of people you described are derided as “RINOs” - Republicans In Name Only, and receive scorn as if they were Hugo Chavez. If they run for Congress or the senate, they face a within-party challenge from another Republican who is much more of the modern southern-fried variety.

Particularly for Congress, where many of the districts are gerrymandered and pretty safe for one party or the other, the Republicans there are often not afraid of Democrats - they’re afraid of another Republican challenging them in the party election.

I can’t help but wonder if this is a consequence of the party election/general election system. The more moderate Republicans would enjoy at least some support from Democrats, whereas the fire-breathing sort of Republican would enjoy almost none. But Democrats don’t vote in Republican Party elections.

When George H Bush lost to Bill Clinton, one of the more “modern” style Republicans declared that this was the midpoint of the Bush-Clinton administration, to show his contempt for the insufficiently conservative George H Bush.

I don’t know whether you experienced this on your eclipse trip or perhaps on another occasion, but when you drive through rural western US, and turn the car radio on, there’s not much there, and what is there is, well, “interesting”. On such a trip, I’ve heard some of the radio people rip into the insufficiently Republican RINO Arnold Schwarzenegger. One of Ronald Reagan’s sons was (and maybe still is) a conservative radio talk host, and I expect he would be absolutely brutal with anyone who espoused policies similar to his father’s today - I think RR would also be a RINO these days.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Arneb » Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:17 pm

When I roamed the Southern Idaho prairie, they at least had CNN radio. And it nothing, NOTHING but the firing of Steve Bannon.

I've read about what you describe. It is ofthen said that the electorate isn't as dogmatic as the Party, but that is probably a too optimistic view of the survival chances of American Democracy. Trump-y, but competent. Let's see if someone turns up.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Мастер » Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:41 pm

Arneb wrote:When I roamed the Southern Idaho prairie, they at least had CNN radio. And it nothing, NOTHING but the firing of Steve Bannon.


Margarita, during the election season, took to putting CNN television news on in the morning (which would be the evening in CNN-land). I am - surprised. It seems like their response to the Fox News challenge, has to become the mirror image of Fox News. It doesn't seem like there's even a pretence of journalistic objectivity any more; the contrast with the BBC news is striking.

I prefer presentation of the facts, I'll do my own interpretation.

Arneb wrote:It is ofthen said that the electorate isn't as dogmatic as the Party


Well, when you say the electorate, you mean the entire electorate, or one or the other party's electorate?

I almost wonder if it is the opposite. I can't help but wonder whether some of the politicians are all too aware that what they are saying is, well, completely nuts, but that they're just catering to their audience. An example that springs to mind is John McCain, during presidential run of 2000, versus John McCain, during presidential run of 2008. So did John McCain become far more right-wing in eight years? Or did he know that he got beat by a much more right-wing candidate in 2000 (who went on to win the presidency), and that he needed to pretend to be much more right-wing if he wanted to win? (Although if that's the case, it clearly didn't work. A lot of bad luck in his 2008 run though.)

I do remember the 1990s as the time the Republicans really, really started to creep me out. The whole Gingrich thing.

I don't think Trump is faking it, if he were, he'd seem far more coherent :)
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Arneb » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:36 am

Unfortunately, I can't find any good argument against this - As I said, almist 75 million votes for Donald Trump after America has had time to appraise his performance in office does not sound encouraging. And yes, even though for me the default assumption for a Republican Congressperson is that s/he is a spinelss coward, I can very well see just what they are afraid of if they do the right thing: Congratulate their oppenent for a clear, hard-won victory.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Мастер » Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:31 pm

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Arneb » Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:11 pm

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Blue Monster 65 » Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:44 pm

Мастер wrote:Well here's a good one.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/vi ... story.html


Sigh ... those people ... they prove time and again what I've said for close to 30 years now ... the internet is the greatest invention we've ever had and it will be the downfall of us all.

Stupidity spreads so, so fast ... sigh ...
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby MM_Dandy » Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:59 pm

Мастер wrote:I don’t know whether you experienced this on your eclipse trip or perhaps on another occasion, but when you drive through rural western US, and turn the car radio on, there’s not much there, and what is there is, well, “interesting”. On such a trip, I’ve heard some of the radio people rip into the insufficiently Republican RINO Arnold Schwarzenegger. One of Ronald Reagan’s sons was (and maybe still is) a conservative radio talk host, and I expect he would be absolutely brutal with anyone who espoused policies similar to his father’s today - I think RR would also be a RINO these days.


I'm not 100% sure of the numbers, but I'd say at least 75% of the terrestrial radio stations are either country music or conservative talk radio. The rest is made up of oldies and contemporary rock/pop, NPR, sports-talk, and a handful of university-run stations, which are poorly produced but are usually less contentious and have better music.

In the meantime, Senator Thune has finally been sufficiently motivated enough to say "Hey, guys, maybe we should back off of the whole trying to subvert democracy thing, mmkay?" For what it's worth, I think South Dakota's congress critters are pretty safe even from other Republicans. Our one and only representative, Dusty Johnson, actually publicly expressed distaste for Trump before Johnson was elected (although he did do some ass-kissing after the election). Despite that, he easily beat the further-right Republican candidate in this year's primary, and breezed to re-election over the Libertarian nominee. The Democratic party didn't even run a candidate (Well, I think it tried to, but due to utter chaos and apathy, there was no primary held for the office).
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Мастер » Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:17 pm

MM_Dandy wrote:I'm not 100% sure of the numbers, but I'd say at least 75% of the terrestrial radio stations are either country music or conservative talk radio. The rest is made up of oldies and contemporary rock/pop, NPR, sports-talk, and a handful of university-run stations, which are poorly produced but are usually less contentious and have better music.


It was on one of my western mountain climbing trips that I came to know "Big Ol' Truck". :shock:

MM_Dandy wrote:The Democratic party didn't even run a candidate (Well, I think it tried to, but due to utter chaos and apathy, there was no primary held for the office).


Something kind of funny happens from time to time, when one party has an incumbent so strong, the other party just runs a token lightweight, instead of putting any money behind a serious candidate. Then something happens late in the primary season - the incumbent is in a scandal, dies, whatever, and ends up getting replaced on the party ticket. And all of sudden, the other party has a chance - except it's too late, they already picked a lightweight with no chance of winning.

Sometimes the lightweight does win. After 36 years in congress, Dan Rostenkowski got caught up in a scandal, and lost to Michael Patrick Flanagan, who supposedly ran because he lost a bet. Rostenkowski ultimately went to prison. Flanagan served one term, and lost his seat to Rod Blagojevich, who was just released from prison this year.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Richard A » Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:12 pm

Catching up on this while dealing with the old-style coronavirus that traditionally comes out at this time of the year, but happily only does serious harm to the seriously immunocompromised.

Unless you either live in the US or continue to have contact with the "southern fried" Republicans, it is difficult to comprehend just how different a universe they inhabit. They mostly shut up over Trump's denigration of McCain - because intense respect for military is one of their core values - but other than that, well. Their views of the election result are a dangerous combination of two strands. 1. "The election was stolen." OK, that we can live with as the courts are repeatedly saying, no, it wasn't. The real snake is 2. "Whether or not the election was stolen, Biden in the White House is a clear and present danger to America." The rest therefore follows: if you're a Republican who says, "It sucks that we lost, but hey, that's democracy - let's try for better things in the mid-terms and then in 2024", you open yourself up to "So you're willing to let socialists destroy our country for 4 years. Well, then get out the way and let those who are prepared to fight for their country do it."

And their miasma has spread to the UK: the true Brexiteer is opposed to wearing a mask, doesn't trust the vaccine, etc. I see them. What the hell do measures to try to fight covid have to do with Brexit??? For your answer, look to Trump's (happily unsuccessful) election rally in Arizona in late October. Up on to the stage, for Trump to put his arm round his shoulders in welcome (neither wearing a mask), comes Nigel Farage. Leave.EU, the particularly lunatic faction of the Brexiteers, loves Trump. So if Trump doesn't do masks, nor do they. Whether the US now endorsing a vaccine will change that, we'll have to see.

Meanwhile, back in the US, a new sinister move from the right. To accept Trump's defeat in order to build for 2024 "Trumpism without Trump". In other words, find someone who espouses Trump's politics but doesn't have the Don's unfortunate character flaws. To adapt Brecht, the bitch that bore him is already pregnant again.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Enzo » Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:02 am

What is getting REAL scary right now is they are now actively talking about maybe declaring Martial LAw and declaring the election void.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Richard A » Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:04 am

Yes, I know. The question is, if it comes to that, what will the generals do? Several have already made the point that they swore an oath of allegiance to the Constitution, not the President - on the other hand, Trump remains Commander-in-Chief until January 20th, so at least technically they have to follow his orders and refusal to do so would be mutiny. It could end up not being pretty at all.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Arneb » Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:10 am

I share your worries, but I am relatively confident Trump's incompetence will protect us from that.

His betrayal of the Constitution, the institutions and the vote is nauseating, but as a move to steal the vote and ensure a pseudo-legitimate re-election, it was rather ineptly executed.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Blue Monster 65 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:46 pm

The really scary thought is that there are more competent people watching how Trump and his ilk have led America around by the nose ring and are learning from his mistakes.

I got threatened online by an acquaintance yesterday who quite likely is unhinged enough to be a physical threat. The way in which he came out of nowhere with this struck me quite seriously. This is not someone whom I would have expected this behavior from five years ago when our sons were friends, but watching his Facebook posts devolve over the past four years I now believe he’s become unhinged enough and so radicalized that I am in the odd position of actually wondering what he might do come January 6, when he promised I - and everyone like me (presumably those who are not Trump fans) are “deep in the bullshit.” Is he capable? Yes. Will he? I don’t know.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Heid the Ba » Wed Jan 06, 2021 4:52 pm

Wee Nicola's view of Trump coming to Scotland to avoid the inauguration:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-scotland-55553493
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby g-one » Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:27 pm

I read about that and thought, almost worth locking down a whole country just to keep him out, never mind covid.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Enzo » Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:15 pm

Well now he has brewed up an armed insurrection. MAGA hats have stormed the Capitol, they got inside. COngress was spirited away. They can conduct business elsewhere. Washington had tons of underground facilities. A woman was shot and killed inside the Capitol and teargas was deployed inside, as well as outside.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Мастер » Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:58 am

I don't think there is much chance of an Enabling Act getting passed.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Blue Monster 65 » Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:01 am

No, but I just saw a Republican senator give a pretty good rebuttal to all the terrorist actions of today. I was quite surprised.

And so far plenty of people are calling out Cruz as being disingenuous as well. Some of them seem pretty pissed off (about a number of things) - that's not a bad thing in my mind.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby Мастер » Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:10 am

I'm seeing pictures of protesters posing with flags and wearing silly costumes, presumably inside the capitol building.

I wonder if they're going to be receiving some government-issued clothing soon.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Postby tubeswell » Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:02 am

Enzo wrote:Well now he has brewed up an armed insurrection. MAGA hats have stormed the Capitol, they got inside. COngress was spirited away. They can conduct business elsewhere. Washington had tons of underground facilities. A woman was shot and killed inside the Capitol and teargas was deployed inside, as well as outside.


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