Dick Cheney

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Dick Cheney’s daughter Liz is a US congresssanimal from Wyoming, a position she has held since 2017.

While consistently ranked as one of the most conservative members of congress, she committed what has been for the last few years the cardinal sin of Republican politics - she went against Donald Trump. Even voting for his impeachment, at least the second time. She was stripped of her house leadership position as punishment (the first attempt failed, but the second attempt succeeded).

Liz Cheney has little to fear from Democrats seeking her seat - she has defeated them three times by very comfortable margins in the general elections. However, her big problem now is the pro-Trump Republican running against her in the party election, which is next Tuesday. Some Democrats are calling on members of their party to vote in the Republican primary instead, and to choose Liz Cheney, an individual who voted with Trump’s position more than 90% of the time, supports the use of waterboarding, and declined to speak against Obama “birther” conspiracy theories when they came up in an interview. We live in interesting times.

Anyway, Liz’s father, an eight-year vice-President who is generally regarded as an arch-conservative, and who left office with a 13% approval rating (but note - that is a national rating, not a Wyoming rating), has been trying to help his daughter out in her re-election bid. Recent statements by Dick Cheney have referred to Trump as a “coward”, and mentioned that no one is a “greater threat to our republic”.

I wonder what happens when two icons of the non-moderate wing of the Republican Party get at each other like this. Will it erode support for Trump, or will the non-moderates start to deride Dick Cheney as a liberal, a socialist, and a democrat in disguise?

[Arneb]

He might well. Donald Trump isn't known for his keen regard for reality.

Thinking about it, and aside the usual acrimony between two super-alpha males of questionable character, I don't find the disagreement between the two too surprising. One point is that old-school Republicanism certainly saw itself as the voice of realism, of calm, deliberate, interest-based policies, and of utmost respect towards American institutions. The modern Republican "fuck those elections - we can do anything as long as we win" attitude must stir revulsion in a "true" Conservative, although most of the Republican electorate don't seem to get this point (yet?).

The other thing is, the two are on opposing side of a rift that has been present in American politics for a very long time, and seems to exist independently of the Liberal/Conservative divide: That of America as World Policeman (in a very Judge Dredd way) vs. that of American isolationism. Cheney and Trump are both terrible in my book, but they have an actual bit of actual policy to disagree about.

I am not sure I agree with Cheney about Trump being the biggest threat to the American Republic. I find Ron De Santis, the "Trump with Brains", even more chilling.

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He might well. Donald Trump isn't known for his keen regard for reality.

Well Donald Trump will, but will anyone else?

I never thought I'd see the day when Dick Cheney would be derided as a liberal. But I wonder whether this will happen now. Barry Goldwater himself marvelled in his later years that he was then considered part of the liberal wing of the Republican Party.

Thinking about it, and aside the usual acrimony between two super-alpha males of questionable character, I don't find the disagreement between the two too surprising. One point is that old-school Republicanism certainly saw itself as the voice of realism, of calm, deliberate, interest-based policies, and of utmost respect towards American institutions. The modern Republican "fuck those elections - we can do anything as long as we win" attitude must stir revulsion in a "true" Conservative, although most of the Republican electorate don't seem to get this point (yet?).

Indeed, it seems the old, smoother, more intellectual, William Buckley style of conservatism has given way to the modern monster truck conservatism.

The other thing is, the two are on opposing side of a rift that has been present in American politics for a very long time, and seems to exist independently of the Liberal/Conservative divide: That of America as World Policeman (in a very Judge Dredd way) vs. that of American isolationism. Cheney and Trump are both terrible in my book, but they have an actual bit of actual policy to disagree about.

I think that one goes back all the way to George Washington (who was more isolationist).

I am not sure I agree with Cheney about Trump being the biggest threat to the American Republic. I find Ron De Santis, the "Trump with Brains", even more chilling.

Yes, I've been thinking for a while, every ambitious, unscrupulous, right-winger has been watching the Trump phenomenon, and learning from it. There may be a new "improved" Trump coming out soon . . .

[wring]

I wouldn't call Trump et al as a 'conservative wing' of the Republican party, but rather a xenophobic, racist, 'good ole boy' network. Cheney, as much as I hated him, is a classic hawk/conservative.

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And out . . . Liz Cheney loses primary election.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62569056

Of the ten Republicans who voted to impeach Trump, all have been challenged, four retired, four lost, and two survived.

So everyone has presumably received the message now about what happens to you if you oppose Trump.

[Richard A]

Oh, there can be absolutely no question of that. Trump succeeded in building a cult during his 4 years to such an extent that the GOP base now regard any Republican who opposes him as a traitor. I see their posts. And let's be equally clear: had the storming of the Capitol on January 6 ultimately succeeded, there would be none of this crap that they were Antifa: there would by now be an Ashli Babbit Square and Babbit herself would likely be in Arlington. Any of us could script the speech that Trump would have given in her memory.

I guess the one glimmer of hope comes from the fact that 2 of the opponents have actually managed to survive.