On this day in history...

[Arneb]

October 7, 1949: The GDR is founded. It lasts 40 years, 10 months and 23 days.

[Мастер]

I missed yesterday, October 10 - on that date in 1911, the Wuchang uprising began against imperial China, leading to the proclamation of the Republic of China on January 1, 1912. Aforementioned Republic lost control of the Chinese mainland, but continues in Taiwan.

[tubeswell]

... the proclamation of the Republic of China on January 1, 2012. ...

Are you sure about this date? ;-)

[Arneb]

November 9 has been called the German Day of Destiny:

1918 Kaiser Wilhelm II abdicates, and Germany is proclaimed a republic by Philip Scheidemann, a Social Democrat
1938 After the murder of a top Nazi diplomat in Pragues, the German Nazi regime rolls out long-prepared pogroms against Jews ("Reichskristallnacht", ab horribly ciynical name inveneted by the Nazis; in politically correct circles, the event is today called Reichspogromnacht).
1989 The wall is opened in the East-West direction, prompting a happening-like mass stroll of East German citizens into West Berlin, opening the way to the downfall of communism in the GDR, and later, to the re-unification of Germany within the borders of the former German allied occupation zones (+ Saarland, but no-one ever talks about that)

[Lianachan]

Is much of the Berlin wall left standing? I've been saddened at what I am under the impression is the more or less complete removal of an historical item/archaeological site of global significance.

[Arneb]

Is much of the Berlin wall left standing? I've been saddened at what I am under the impression is the more or less complete removal of an historical item/archaeological site of global significance.

There is a famous bit of Wall, off the Berlin city centre, called East Side Gallery. It has been decorated with Graffiti art - but it is a post-GDR artifact, as, of course the East side of the wall was of uniform greyish white. There is also a Wall memorial, where some portion of the entire, rather grueseome border infrastructure has been preserved for commemorative and ecucational pruposes. The House at Checkpoint Charlie, which was an anitcommunist Wall memorial when the Wall still existed, presenting the evils of communism live and in colour, is still there. Checkpoint Charlie itself is partly preserved, with a museum and some hardware.

The ring around Berlin (where it bordered the countryside, as opposed to East Berlin, is almost completely gone. When you continue down the road we live in, you go straight to the border with the former West Berlin, and someone there has preserved two prefab Wall elements consisting of a ground slab, a piece of wall three meters high plus a cylindrical strip at the top, each segment a meter wide, in his garden. On quite a few streteches, you can walk along the tarmac strip which was part of the border fortifications. When the Wall had fallen, they turned from barren strip to forrest, now, they are being developed.

Although I sympathize with your sentiment (and I am the last to say the Wall should be dimantled entirely), I am happy with things as they are now. The Wall was a brutal wound cut right through a functioning city, and an incredible strangulation for a city in lively exchange with its surroundings. These things shouldn't last. You know, I felt a mixture of unease and elation whenever I just stepped out of my home town in the post Wall years, and sometimes even tody, I can't seem to get over it. There is very little worth preserving there. Also, as I said, the mature Wall (after, say, 1970) was a giant prefab industrial structure. You've seen one 1-M-segment of it, you've seen all of it.

[Heid the Ba]

It isn't my decision but I have no problem with it going, there is no mystery about it, it was only there for a few decades and was well documented. When I first went to Berlin there were still a few parts of it up but it was disappearing fast, when I was there a few years ago it had gone.

Have they re-opened the Ghost stations on the U-Bahn?

Edit: I should have checked. And I have used at least three of them.

[Lianachan]

Although I sympathize with your sentiment (and I am the last to say the Wall should be dimantled entirely), I am happy with things as they are now.

Yes, some remaining portions and decent museums is probably a decent compromise.

It isn't my decision

Ah, but as a relic of the cold war it has significance beyond its location. It can be argued that decisions about its fate should not be made by Germany alone. Intentionally exaggerated examples to make a point, but I doubt we'd all be happy if Machu Picchu was bulldozered off its hill top, or if a new Egyptian regime decided to demolish the pyramids at Giza.

Having said that, I'd cheerfully have Fort George at Inverness demolished.

[Мастер]

They ought to have a place where you can give it a try, see if you can get across the wall.

[Heid the Ba]

A Cold War theme park? I like the idea.

Ah, but as a relic of the cold war it has significance beyond its location. It can be argued that decisions about its fate should not be made by Germany alone.

I accept that but there is nothing to learn from the physical relic of the Wall. Machu Picchu still has secrets and hasn't been explored fully the Wall was only in place for a few years and is well documented.

There is a tendency (which I am not saying you have) among those interested in the Great War that everything must be preserved and nothing altered in any way. There was outrage in some quarters when the Belgians built a theme park near Polygon Wood and the Menin Road at Ypres as this was somehow offensive to the memory of the British dead. The same happened when they built wind turbines which partly obstructed a view of something, I can't remember what. There is a point where the people that live there have to control their surroundings.

[Lianachan]

I accept that but there is nothing to learn from the physical relic of the Wall. Machu Picchu still has secrets and hasn't been explored fully the Wall was only in place for a few years and is well documented.

Research isn't the only reason to preserve something though, there are other considerations such as cultural heritage. The few upstanding remains and the museums Arneb talks about sound likely to be sufficient, I reckon. As an aside, something being well documented doesn't mean there's still nothing worthwhile left to learn, either.

There is a tendency (which I am not saying you have) among those interested in the Great War that everything must be preserved and nothing altered in any way. There was outrage in some quarters when the Belgians built a theme park near Polygon Wood and the Menin Road at Ypres as this was somehow offensive to the memory of the British dead. The same happened when they built wind turbines which partly obstructed a view of something, I can't remember what. There is a point where the people that live there have to control their surroundings.

Absolutely. There's a balance to be struck, and it's unlikely that one single solution would suit all of the interested parties.

[Lance]

Ah, but as a relic of the cold war it has significance beyond its location. It can be argued that decisions about its fate should not be made by Germany alone.

I accept that but there is nothing to learn from the physical relic of the Wall. Machu Picchu still has secrets and hasn't been explored fully the Wall was only in place for a few years and is well documented.

Perhaps Auschwitz is a better example?

[Lianachan]

Auschwitz is a great example. It's of great global significance (and somewhat of a pilgrimage site) - it matters far more to people outside Poland than it does to Poles. Should they be allowed to demolish it?

[Lance]

And on this date in 1957, a star rose in the East. The wise men gathered from far and wide and brought him their gifts. The world rejoiced as his subjects bathed in the glory that is him. Proclaim it from the mountain tops; a baby llama is born.

[Heid the Ba]

All praise him!

[tubeswell]

On 1 December 2014, the U.N. World Food Program stopped assistance to over 1.7 million Syrian refugees in the nations adjoining Syria; the program had provided over $800 million in aid but lacked funds to continue this support. How should this end?

[Arneb]

Well, up here in Germany we know how it's ending.

[Heid the Ba]

15th December 1933 the 21st Amendment becomes law, drinks all round!

[Мастер]

One hundred years ago, on December 25 1915, there were small scale repetitions of the Christmas truce of 1914. Despite orders to avoid a repeat of the previous year's festivities, various parts of the western front were quiet as French, British, and German soldiers celebrated Christmas together. There do not appear to have been any repeats in 1916.

[Lance]

On this day in history, two thousand and fifteen years ago, our lord and savior was born unto this world.

There see? I could say it with a straight face!

[tubeswell]

On 29 December 1786, The Assembly of Notables was convened.

[Arneb]

5 years ago today, the so-called Arab Spring began in Algeria.

[Мастер]

5 years ago today, the so-called Arab Spring began in Algeria.

Yes, in Syria and Iraq, it's looking more like the Arab Winter.

On this day (December 29th) in 875, Charles II was crowned Holy Roman Emperor, 75 years and four days after Charles I.

[Heid the Ba]

8th February 1942: Japan invades Singapore.

[Lianachan]

8th February 1587: Mary, Queen of Scots, is executed on the orders of her arsehole cousin the Queen of England (Elizabeth).