How does this add up?

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How does this add up?

Postby Lance » Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:45 am

So what kind of answers do we come up with here?

There is some conversation about this here. Though for some reason, you'll need to scroll up a little.

Puzzle.jpg
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Re: How does this add up?

Postby Halcyon Dayz, FCD » Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:05 am

It doesn't actually say what you are supposed to do.

But there are 4 1000s, 2 20s, and 2 30s.
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Re: How does this add up?

Postby Мастер » Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:12 am

If it's addition, I say 4,100.

If it's something else, then I'm not sure what that something else is.
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Re: How does this add up?

Postby Enzo » Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:09 am

I see 4100 from the expected assumptions.

Since it is a FAcebook page, all I see is the puzzle itself. it expects me to log in or join to see anything else.
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Re: How does this add up?

Postby Heid the Ba » Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:49 pm

Мастер wrote:If it's addition, I say 4,100.

If it's something else, then I'm not sure what that something else is.

Exactly
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Re: How does this add up?

Postby Lance » Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:42 pm

There was an assertion that it is supposed to be a pattern, and that the answer is 30. But of all the times I've seen this and similar puzzles, I've only seen that suggested once.

ETA: I responded to that by stating if t were true, and we're supposed to see t visually, then there would need to be a line below the first 20 as well.
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Re: How does this add up?

Postby Heid the Ba » Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:58 pm

We are assuming it is base 10, but there is nothing to say it isn't. It would make sense as a puzzle if we had the number at ?? and one of the others was missing.
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Re: How does this add up?

Postby Lance » Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:30 pm

These are always trick questions, that's the point. In this one, it's easy to carry the '1' from the 10's column and it to the 1000's column. The most common answer given is 5,000. I actually made the same mistake the first time I saw it.
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Re: How does this add up?

Postby Мастер » Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:31 pm

Lance wrote:These are always trick questions, that's the point. In this one, it's easy to carry the '1' from the 10's column and it to the 1000's column. The most common answer given is 5,000. I actually made the same mistake the first time I saw it.


I was pretty seriously close to making that error.
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Re: How does this add up?

Postby Lance » Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:34 pm

Мастер wrote:I was pretty seriously close to making that error.

I advised the person I was discussing this with to come back here to talk to you about things like PEMDAS and other basic rules if he felt like he needed input from an expert. He is a current member...
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Re: How does this add up?

Postby Мастер » Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:36 pm

Maybe multiple ways to come to the same conclusion, but I just added them up one after the other. Then 4080+20 == ???, something about the psychology of this causes one to miss the extra 0, and conclude it is 5,000.

But maybe there are other ways to get 5,000.
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Re: How does this add up?

Postby Lance » Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:50 pm

I think I added all the 1,000s first, giving 4,000. Then added the 10s getting to 80. From there, it's the same thing. That last step can throw you.
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Re: How does this add up?

Postby tubeswell » Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:40 pm

4,100
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Re: How does this add up?

Postby Enzo » Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:44 pm

80?

I would think the default understanding with a vertical list of numbers and a line under them is to add them and find the sum. I would not expect a "find the next entry in a series" question to be presented in that form.
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Re: How does this add up?

Postby Lance » Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:57 pm

I agree. The line under them is "equals". And you can't subtract, multiply or divide a set of numbers like that. Even if an operator were specified, it would just be a nonsensical equation. And if you want to try to make it a pattern, then you have to include the line somehow.

I gave another example of an equation: (5+3)(5+3)=?

The same person who claimed it was a pattern also said multiplication is "implied" in my example, not understanding that it is a strict rule and that the only possible answer is 64, with no assumptions necessary.

There are many examples all over Facebook that demonstrate how little people understand about some pretty basic arithmetic that should have been learned in grade school.

Another one is: 20 + 30 * 0 + 1 = ?
A: 51
B: 21
C: 1
D: 0

Of course the only right answer is B: 21, but it is often the least chosen.
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Re: How does this add up?

Postby Arneb » Mon Dec 12, 2016 6:31 pm

I did get 4100. I am always trying to teach my young colleagues that doctor must be able to do a few basic calculations in their heads, because a) in CPR you can't bother to pull out your mobile, unlock it, and try to type into the calculator, and, b) always, always check doses at least once before writing them up.

I am regarded with a mixture mild exasperation and a fond "isn't he sweet, the old chap" look, but I try to insist.
Yes I know, I can't even COUNT backwards. Still, it's what I do. I got 4100, and 21. On the spot. Hm'kay?
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Re: How does this add up?

Postby Lance » Mon Dec 12, 2016 6:45 pm

So you get it right when it counts. That's what's important.
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Re: How does this add up?

Postby Arneb » Mon Dec 12, 2016 6:55 pm

You aren't saying, are you, that 1,000,000 DOES NOT COUNT???

I feel so used.

I always like to tell the story, especially to my son or the colleagues,of the Apollo guidance computer whose entire readout consisted of four digits, and nothing else. Because, you know, every half way literate pilot would know where to put the decimal. That just wasn't something an Apollo astronaut would have to delegate to a machine.
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Re: How does this add up?

Postby Lance » Mon Dec 12, 2016 7:27 pm

Of course 1,000,000 counts! Just not quite as much as, say, CPR.
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Re: How does this add up?

Postby Arneb » Mon Dec 12, 2016 7:53 pm

You say that just to calm me down!
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Re: How does this add up?

Postby Lance » Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:41 pm

Arneb wrote:You say that just to calm me down!


Watch on youtube.com
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Re: How does this add up?

Postby Dragon Star » Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:52 pm

Thanks for the conversational invite but I literally have nothing to add to this. My only point is that it's coincidentally repeating if you're correct, and that I could not find an example of anyone using addition mathematics without an addition symbol. Leaves me full of doubt since this "problem" is designed as such to fool people, and for that reason I can not ignore the repeat supporting the opportunity for a few people to suggest it's not a math problem at all without the proper functions. Without proper functions, it's thus implied that the problem is addition. It, in my opinion, doesn't make it addition by some kind of default.

This said my math is janky at best so if you suggest that in higher mathmatics "it's just known", there's no way for me to know that.

If my Algebra 2 teach wrote this and said "solve":

54
22
__


I can guarantee not everyone would use addition, and some would further say that without a function it isn't a problem therefor there is no answer.

Who is technically right would likely depend on whom you ask, therefor it's implied. It's like schrodinger's cat in mathmatical form they way I see it.
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Re: How does this add up?

Postby tubeswell » Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:20 am

Dragon Star wrote:...
If my Algebra 2 teach wrote this and said "solve":

54
22
__


I can guarantee not everyone would use addition, .....


I think I remember some math convention learned many moons ago in my now hazy youth, whereupon if there isn't a function symbol, you should multiply. But this has become somewhat arcane knowledge for me.
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Re: How does this add up?

Postby Lance » Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:34 am

tubeswell wrote:
Dragon Star wrote:...
If my Algebra 2 teach wrote this and said "solve":

54
22
__


I can guarantee not everyone would use addition, .....


I think I remember some math convention learned many moons ago in my now hazy youth, whereupon if there isn't a function symbol, you should multiply. But this has become somewhat arcane knowledge for me.

Yup. So the answer to Dragon's equation is 1,188. It's nothing implied or assumed, it's just following the rules. That's why there ARE rules; so you don't have to guess.
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Re: How does this add up?

Postby Dragon Star » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:07 am

I guess my disconnect lies within the "rules" and where are they/what are they? As I said if you plug into google "addition problem" you can sift through pages and pages of arithmetic without seeing a single example of an addition without an addition symbol. Rules vs universal acceptance is a conflicting issue for me.

I have no experience beyond algebra 2 and geometry so perhaps it's taught this way beyond that, but not in my curriculum.
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