The "Infidels" are going to leave Iraq prematurely

[Bill_Thompson]

The American "INfidels" are going to leave Iraq prematurely. I just wonder if the general population know that this does not mean that the Iraqi people have won anything. Instead they have lost. Instead they are fucked. I wonder if the American Left are smart enough to know that this is not a victory for them. Probably not. They are idiots too.

[Bandit]

For the record, I'm no "leftist" pinko or "right-wing" wacko Bill_Thompson. :wink: Anyway..

The Iraqis are screwing themselves (without any help from the 'American Left' BTW) and the current US admin made it easy for 'em. Sad as it is to say (since Saddam was a real bastard) we got rid of a police state that kept things in check and have total anarchy now. Why no one in Washington saw this possibility prior to the invasion is mind-boggling, especially with the violent breakup of Yugoslavia not that many years prior. Didn't anyone in the Administration see the need to plan beyond the initial military phase, which was successfully prosecuted in weeks? Why, 3 1/2 yrs later is the Iraqi infrastructure (including military, police, and the bickering government) still in such disarray? Despite official denials there is a civil war going on between the Sunni-Shia and the best thing to do is let 'em slug it out IMO.. hell, they're doing it anyway.

If I was Prez and started today (pretend they fired Bush Jr. :D ) the first thing I'd do is determine if it's even possible for there to be a unified Iraqi government and military. If so, I'd have us stick around long enough to have the Iraqis capable of standing on their own two feet and, this is important - actually fucking do it for a change - and then I'd have us get the hell out. If however, as I believe, the current climate is not conducive to an Iraqi government of national unity, I'd have us getting out starting now.

[Мастер]

Didn't anyone in the Administration see the need to plan beyond the initial military phase, which was successfully prosecuted in weeks?

Oh, I'm sure some of them did.

[Bandit]

Didn't anyone in the Administration see the need to plan beyond the initial military phase, which was successfully prosecuted in weeks?

Oh, I'm sure some of them did.

Maybe, but not the right people obviously. That's not a very efficient way to run a government, let alone prosecute a war.

[Мастер]

Maybe, but not the right people obviously.

Well, not the ones who ended up making the decisions, at least.

That's not a very efficient way to run a government, let alone prosecute a war.

Whether it is efficient or not depends on how one measures output :P

[Bandit]

True efficiency isn't subjective. :wink:

[Мастер]

True efficiency isn't subjective. :wink:

Do explain.

[Bandit]

True efficiency speaks for itself. It's apparent despite one's preconceptions or biases regarding whatever the hell is being efficient in first place. :P

[Мастер]

True efficiency speaks for itself. It's apparent despite one's preconceptions or biases regarding whatever the hell is being efficient in first place. :P

So it must say the same thing to all people? Methinks there are probably not too many examples of true efficiency then :P

[Dragon Star]

True efficiency speaks for itself. It's apparent despite one's preconceptions or biases regarding whatever the hell is being efficient in first place. :P

I really want an example, because every single person on earth is biased in one manner or another...just by simply existing and being aware of ones self existence.

[Bandit]

True efficiency speaks for itself. It's apparent despite one's preconceptions or biases regarding whatever the hell is being efficient in first place. :P

I really want an example, because every single person on earth is biased in one manner or another...just by simply existing and being aware of ones self existence.

It's everywhere. Do Swiss/German trains not operate with an efficiency that's irrefutable?

[Bandit]

True efficiency speaks for itself. It's apparent despite one's preconceptions or biases regarding whatever the hell is being efficient in first place. :P

So it must say the same thing to all people? Methinks there are probably not too many examples of true efficiency then :P

True efficiency doesn't have to "say" anything .. it's self-apparent.

[Dragon Star]

True efficiency speaks for itself. It's apparent despite one's preconceptions or biases regarding whatever the hell is being efficient in first place. :P

I really want an example, because every single person on earth is biased in one manner or another...just by simply existing and being aware of ones self existence.

It's everywhere. Do Swiss/German trains not operate with an efficiency that's irrefutable?

Ah, I see what you are saying now. I was thinking along the lines of individualistic ideas...

Thanks for the example. :)

[Мастер]

True efficiency doesn't have to "say" anything .. it's self-apparent.

To everyone? Then repeat comment. . .

Do Swiss/German trains not operate with an efficiency that's irrefutable?

They're quite expensive. . .

[Heid the Ba]

Do Swiss/German trains not operate with an efficiency that's irrefutable?

They're quite expensive. . .

. . . and are always on time by being relatively slow, thus building in the ability to catch up.

[Bill_Thompson]

A muslim co-worker has said the USA went into Iraq without considering the culture and history. I think he is correct.

[Bandit]

It ain't the history or culture of Iraq that's the problem, it's the bozos that prosecuted the war without thinking it through that's the problem.

[Bill_Thompson]

It ain't the history or culture of Iraq that's the problem, it's the bozos that prosecuted the war without thinking it through that's the problem.

Which is what I just said.

For the record, I'm no "leftist" pinko or "right-wing" wacko Bill_Thompson. :wink: Anyway..

No, but you like to name-call.

Or am I getting that wrong?

Are you calling me a wacko? That hurts my feelings. :(

[I Am He]

Did you just call Wacko Bill a Wacko?? That's not a very polite thing to do you know. Now you have him all upset.

[Bandit]

It ain't the history or culture of Iraq that's the problem, it's the bozos that prosecuted the war without thinking it through that's the problem.

Which is what I just said.

That's not what I read. The Iraqi culture and history isn't the problem.

For the record, I'm no "leftist" pinko or "right-wing" wacko Bill_Thompson. :wink: Anyway..

No, but you like to name-call.

Or am I getting that wrong?

Are you calling me a wacko? That hurts my feelings. :(

You need to lighten up Bill, I was joking. Know what 'tongue-in-cheek' means?
I don't really think Enzo is a "pinko" either..

[Dragon Star]

Are you calling me a wacko? That hurts my feelings. :(

Bill, I found this just for you.

When you're down and low...