Black and White...not so simple.

[Dragon Star]

Right, so we all know that racial crap is all around us, and perhaps a few of us are racist...I sure am. Except not what you think, I hate black people...and white.

I hate this crap. Skin color spontaneously defines morality? Bullshit! I get looks all the time from black people who think I'm looking at them like they belong in prison, and it pisses me off. I hear white people constantly jolting derogatory crap at black people, and it pisses me off.

Why must we be like this? Of all the things we can hate each other for...our nonsensical reputations fallow us for generations...pathetic.

Throughout grade and high school I learned something, all the redneck fucktards I knew who were racist were because of their parents (dominantly their father). They would discuss about how they hated them, planed to kill them for no reason other then their skin...exc...

And then you have black people who kill whites due to ridiculous misunderstanding, and gangs...they practically fuck everything for their own colors reputation, while still demanding equal rights. Blaming bush for hating black people for not taking action he can't even do during Catrina. What a colossal cluster fuck. I don't understand either side.

My question is this: Why does this continue? Is it because of parents? Something to simply blame personal issues to? Or is the real reason that we are all afraid of each others power?

Sometimes I just wish I could just be surrounded by nothing but Mexican Americans...they are the only ones I've come to respect as a race in this world.

[troubleagain]

It is my observation, in my personal life, at least, that it gets better generation to generation. My father is not as racist as his father. I'm less racist than he is. (I won't lie and say completely non-racist, as it is a struggle I continue to have with myself--not to judge anyone based on their skin color. I have generations of bad thought to overcome.) It's my hope that future generations will become less and less racist to the point where racism disappears. I don't think we'll ever get there*, but I hope we continue to try.

*There's a certain amount of xenophobia that I believe is inherent in humanity. Even if we mixed races to the point where we were all light brown, we'd fine some way to define a group that is "other" and try to marginalize them as well. Maybe it's part of the animal instinct to preserve our own genetic line in preference to all others.

[KLA2]

Yes. (S)he who passes on the most surviving DNA wins. The biological imperative.

However, for sentient, intelligent species … (us, dummies)

You do what YOU can. Be a person who helps, not a person who hurts. Be a person who loves, not a person who hates. Be a person who builds, not a person who tears down. Help others up, don’t knock them down. Give, don’t just take. You get it. Sing along. :D

Karma. Enough people do it, it WILL make a positive difference. (Sure can’t hurt ..) 8)

Yeah, you may end up getting a knife in the back. But otherwise, you probably will anyway. :(

You do what YOU can, give what YOU can, teach what YOU can. Pass it on.

[Enzo]

I remember an old redneck racist talking to a reporter about his negative feelings towards blacks, "Well if I am not better than they are who AM I better than?"

In a word, ace, nobody.

[Bill_Thompson]

Race is a lie.

[Dragon Star]

Race is a lie.

So...I'm not really white?

I KNEW IT!

[Bill_Thompson]

Race is a lie.

So...I'm not really white?

I KNEW IT!

Noone is white unless they are are dead and have all their fluids drained. Even then, it is debatable.

But race is a lie. What one culture calls black another culture would not and vice-a-versa. Race is a lie. It is a made-up ball of bull shit.

How white are you? Go to Norway and maybe some of the people there would consider you to be non-white. Or question you.

You had to only slightly dark to have a Nazi ask to check your records to see.

It is all crap. George Carlin liked to say there is no back or white people, only pink and brown.

The color of ones skin often is not what race is about anyway. All the more reason it is a lie.

Brazilians consider the comedian Sinbad to be white because his color falls on the white side of their line they draw. All the more reason race is a lie. It is an idea defined by imagination and culture, not by science. It is a lie.

[Enzo]

So far Bill has been unable to tell the difference between a lie and something he disagrees with.

[umop ap!sdn]

Race is a lie. It is a made-up ball of bull shit.

So there are no Europeans, or Africans, or Asians, or Amerinds? The populations of every region in the world have exactly the same variations of genes in exactly the same proportions?

[Halcyon Dayz, FCD]

Since the term is so vaguely defined, it might be best not to use.
Many scientists don't.

How many races are there?
3, 6, 20,000, or just the one?
One could make an argument for all these numbers.

[Enzo]

The word tall is not well defined either. A short tree may be a lot taller than a tall human. HUmans see tall differently depending on their own group averages. 5"10 is very tall among the Hmong, but 6'3 is not tall among basketball players. Hard to say what tall is, yet we have no trouble saying there are short people and tall ones. Even if we have to accept fuzzy criteria.

One could make cases for a variety of numbers of races, and those cases would all depend upon context.

At one level it is silly to lump all sub-Saharan Africans into one group, but at another level it does make an overall description contrasted to Eastern Asian people. And just so we cannot then in some contexts lump all CHinese, Japanese, Koreans, etc into one group, while it does make a descriptive term when used to compare to those sub-Saharans. Or natives of the Andes. Or Inuit.

Making groupings does not ignore the common characteristics, any more than making a distinction between chimps and bonobos makes either one less an ape.

ANd if one choses a race name and then tries to use that name to specify absolute anything in all circumstances, of course he will fail.

[Bill_Thompson]

Race is a lie.

I cannot believe someone mentioned different species of apes as an example of common groupings. I wish there was a retarded emoticon/smilie I could post here.

It is more like a domesticated cat of one color and one of another color that we are talking about here.

[Enzo]

Yep, it is just about impossible to tell a Siamese from a Maine Coon.

[KLA2]

This is a concept that has annoyed the hell out of me ever since I learned to read and think. If a person is 100% “black” “blood”, they are “black”. 10% “black” “blood” and 90% “white” “blood” they are still “black”.

Yet … blood transfusions work between all humans.

Why not discriminate between people with blue eyes and brown eyes? A three way hate fest between people with blond, black and red hair? Etc.

The human race, traced back genetically, comes from a limited gene pool of ancestors who dispersed and populated the planet. If I remember correctly. Then, different cultures and “races” again traveled the globe and interbred.

There are no “pure” races. Just some isolated and interbred for long periods of time.

I THINK this is what BT, in his taciturn fashion, is saying.

If so, I agree with him on this. As do many here.

Bill, you seem an educated, intelligent guy. You make valid points, yet often in a seemingly obtuse fashion. Why???

[troubleagain]

Why not discriminate between people with blue eyes and brown eyes?

Nah, I'd rather we gang up on them green-eyed bastards. :wink:

I agree that "race" is just a continuum of physical characteristics with no clear dividing line. I'm about as "white" as you can get, but I know for a fact that I've got ancestors of color (primarily "red", though it's entirely possible there is some "black" as well) that you sure as hell can't tell by looking at me.

[KLA2]

Hey ... what's a nice girl like you doing in a forum like this?? :wink: 8)

[troubleagain]

Ummm...I got lost on my way back from the Ladies' Room?

[Bill_Thompson]

So far Bill has been unable to tell the difference between a lie and something he disagrees with.

I said race is a lie.

I did not say racism is a lie.

Racism exists. I disgaree with racism.

Race does not exist. Race is a lie.

Any questions?

[Dragon Star]

No questions, but I think you should differentiate between species and race.

Race based on Human genetic variation, are you saying that you deny this?

[Enzo]

Too much is made of not enough and then sides aer chosen to defend themselves.

Tell all those folks with sickle cell anemia that race is a lie.

[Bill_Thompson]

Race is a lie. It is a made-up ball of bull shit.

So there are no Europeans, or Africans, or Asians, or Amerinds? The populations of every region in the world have exactly the same variations of genes in exactly the same proportions?

If you travel around Africa you will find that the different shapes and colors of people and their features is so varied that classifying them is absurd.

Too much is made of not enough and then sides aer chosen to defend themselves.

Tell all those folks with sickle cell anemia that race is a lie.

So it is a genetic desease. So what? It is not connected to skin color. What you are saying is as absurd as saying that just because more white people are color blind, color blindness is a desease connect to this term "race". It is not.

Race is a lie.

You people are forgetting some important facts (I wouldn't suggest that you somehow are not aware of them). The Mormon Church in the 1950's were heavily racist. But they encountered a big problem when they went to Brazil. Suddenly they could not tell who the black people were that they were supposed to avoid because they were not worthy. This caused a huge problem that they could not resolve, because it took them to go to another culture to realise a simple fact. That fact is that race is a lie.

[Lance]

[umop ap!sdn]

[Bill_Thompson]

There are no definable borders to draw. There are Indian guys at work who have skin blacker than African Americans. And yet, noone calls them black. Once you leave the country you find too many examples where white, black, or whatever are too subjective. It is not a real thing. It is not a real thing medically. It is not a real thing statistically. So I call it a lie.

[Lance]

There are no definable borders to draw.

Why should there have to be? There are no solid lines between day and night or Summer and Winter either, but we certainly know the difference.

There are Indian guys at work who have skin blacker than African Americans. And yet, noone calls them black.

Nope. They would be "Asians". A group distinct from those of African or European heritage.

Once you leave the country you find too many examples where white, black, or whatever are too subjective.

It seems to me like you are focusing too much on just color. There is more to race than color.

It is not a real thing.

This seems to be more a case of you denying the existance of something you merely don't understand that well. Maybe instead of making such a bold statement you should seek knowledge. But that's not your style, is it?

It is not a real thing medically.

I think Enzo already said it, but tell all the people Sickle-cell anemia that they're not really sick. Or read the article: Health Experts Discuss Future of Race-Based Medicine which discusses the then upcoming A National Dialogue: Genomics, Race, and Health Disparities. Or at least, read this paragraph:

It is widely accepted that biological differences dictate how diseases work between racial groups. For example, a study released by the American Heart Association in 2004 showed that African Americans responded better to a new heart failure pill than Caucasians. Southeast Asians have a higher incidence of lactose intolerance than any other racial group. African-American men also have a 60 percent greater risk of having prostate cancer and are two to three times more likely to die of the disease than men of European descent. However, a perplexing question for experts is to what extent biological differences are caused by genetics or by a person's diet, environment or culture.

It is not a real thing statistically.

Please check out the U.S. Census Bureau: Race Data page.

So I call it a lie.

I see...