Writing with an accent

[Arneb]

The "Is there a German in the House" thread prompted me to open this one, which I've been thinking about during the last few days.

Of course, we speak foreign languages with accents. I like to think I am pretty good at picking them out, although sometimes, I find the English/American difference surprisingly hard to spot when people speak German.

Anyway, have any of you ever noticed that the writing style could "accented"? Overt errors, obvious workarounds and imprecisions in vocabulary usage aside, would you notice a "foreign accent" in someone's writing? I came across this question when reading this website: A review site for photographic products, very professional, very sober, very technical. The authors are all German writing in (as far I can judge: very good) English in order to expand their audience. I seem to notice they write "with a German accent". I notice the many parenthesis, the many qualifyers, the long sentences - it doesn't quite have the sound of the original.

My question to the native speakers: Do you notice this on the website the weay I do, or is it just my imagination (please take the time and read a lens review or two, at least the Introducton and Verdict sections, which are a bit less technical)? And - just out of interest - do you notice the "accent" in my writing, too? Suppose I pretended to be someone from,say, South Africa, and managed to weed out any truegrammatical errors, large or small - Would you still recognize the foreigner? Or the German, in particular?

[Мастер]

I don't know whether I'd ever notice that you were a non-native speaker. Perhaps once in a while I would encounter strange word choice, but I see that with native speakers as well :) You do sometimes write obviously German-accented English for comic effect . . .

I will give an example of someone who gave away his German origin once, in person - this was in a US national park. When asked when he had climbed a particular mountain (and it was very clear that the climbing had already taken place), he answered "tomorrow" :)

[Arneb]

When asked when he had climbed a particular mountain (and it was very clear that the climbing had already taken place), he answered "tomorrow" :)

Beautiful.

My English friend likes to tell this one from his first visit to Berlin, in the 70s, when his German aunt invited him to a café. Being offered a choice of an unusual ice cream flavour, she advised him, "You must not take one but you can if you will".

[Мастер]

My English friend likes to tell this one from his first visit to Berlin, in the 70s, when his German aunt invited him to a café. Being offered a choice of an unusual ice cream flavour, she advised him, "You must not take one but you can if you will".

I think I understand what happened there :) The meaning of "must not" was covered quite explicitly in my German classes.

The distinction between "can" and "may" seems to be disappearing in English, with "may" instead referring to a possibility (e.g., "it may rain today") rather than permission.

English is also becoming more German, as I notice the distinction between the adjective and the adverb seems to be disappearing. (Is that something that German used to have, and subsequently lost, or did was it a spontaneous mutation in English?)

[Мастер]

For the benefit of others:

The confusion of my mountain-climbing person is that "morning" and "tomorrow" are the same word in German, the distinction being a matter of usage and context.

Arneb's example has a double issue - in German, the phrase which would be word-for-word, "you must not speak", does not mean "you must not speak" - it means you are not required to speak. I.e., the "not" negates the "must", not the "speak" :) The second one is a mistranslation of the German word "will", which does not mean "will", but "want".

Arneb - the time prepositions are sometimes a giveaway. (I mean in general, not in your speech.) For example, mistranslation of "vor" as "for". I have to be careful not to do this myself - I will tend to understand the German correctly, but am likely to produce incorrect German if I don't think carefully about what I am saying.

[Enzo]

So much of that interests me. I like to listen to Americans to identify where they come from. Noting the difference between Baltimore and Delaware, or between Tennessee and Kentucky. It is also interesting to me how people struggle to speak English, and then again how little of it one needs to still communicate. Asian accents are obvious, but I couldn't tell you which one I was listening to. Show me a Lao and tell me they are Vietnamese, and I'll never know. Then there is the whole Australian thing, they are baffled when Americans claim they have A British accent. Hey, unstressed r's are unstressed r's.

Accent aside, vocabulary is a tell. I notice it in music, like Swedish bands that do the ENglish delivery fine, but some word choices are just odd. "Hello, you fool, I love you."

Written is not as easy. I deal with a lot of people with weak English, and of course there are obvious examples of clumsy sentences and vocabulary. I might recognize oriental sentence structure. But some are very good at it, and I often don;t notice. I once had an extended series of communications with a Russian fellow. His English was flawless...almost. He was thanking me for my assistance, and apologized if his English had caused issues. I had to tell him his English was perfect and would never have caused me suspicion, with one exception, he never used articles. He was even aware of it, but forgot.


But once we get to a certain level of skill, to me, the writer's own characteristics push accents into the noise. As Mactep said, native speakers do odd things all the time, so it isn't a tell of a foreigner. In my writing, I can be long winded or I can be terse. So it doesn;t occur to me to think "German" when I see longer sentences. I read one of the Nikon lens reviews, and it just seemed like normal English to me. I saw comfortable use of contractions.

Arneb, as to your writing, it would never occur to me that you were not a native speaker of ENglish, until we start discussing the fact. If I am looking, I am more likely to seek tells than accents really. A mis-used cultural reference is a lot more telling than grammar, often as not. And even then, if someone wants to come off native, then leave out any cultural references they don;t get. I don't see a lack of awareness of the USA culture in your writing. Occasional specifics get explained, but I don;t see any blind spots in your nuance.

Did you apply for the merit badge?


Clearly the odd translations such as just discussed would be giveaway of something

[Мастер]

I like to listen to Americans to identify where they come from. Noting the difference between Baltimore and Delaware, or between Tennessee and Kentucky.

I am really bad at this sort of thing . . .

A Canadian I once knew asked me about his accent, after his experience in a shop in New York. He asked the clerk (and this was the only thing he said) something like, "Can I have this shipped?" The answer given was, "Yes, and we can ship to Canada."

Show me a Lao and tell me they are Vietnamese, and I'll never know.

Perhaps you are familiar with the Laotian in King of the Hill? "So are you Chinese or Japanese?"

A mis-used cultural reference is a lot more telling than grammar, often as not.

I listened to a BBC interview with someone who had been a translator for Mitterand, Chirac, and Sarkozy. One of her more bizarre comments was that, after years of acting as Mitterand's translator, she was not sure whether he could understand English or not. But, one of the most difficult parts of translation for her was trying to make John Major's cricket metaphors work in French :)

[Arneb]

OK, the comments so far seem to say that the answer is "no" (and thanks for the compliments). Maybe I am overly sensitive to their style (and, of course, I noticed a few minor but characteristic "giveaway" errors), or maybe I am just good at identifying my own accent . Good night for now (that's why I chose South Africa in my example...the time zones match).

[tubeswell]

...
Of course, we speak foreign languages with accents. I like to think I am pretty good at picking them out, although sometimes, I find the English/American difference surprisingly hard to spot when people speak German.

Can you recognise the difference between an Australian speaking German and a New Zealander speaking German?

[Arneb]

No. I can't even do it reliably when they speak English - but that is a matter of practice, and I am optimistic I could learn it quickly if I heard them speak more.

[Enzo]

And typing a downunderlaut.



I just naturally assume all Aussies speak like Crocodile Dundee. I'd say the Kiwis must then all speak like Russell Crowe, but then that would mean they all whisper.

[Мастер]

I just naturally assume all Aussies speak like Crocodile Dundee.

Not all of them, some talk like Steve Irwin!

[Heid the Ba]

Can you recognise the difference between an Australian speaking German and a New Zealander speaking German?

Like Arneb I struggle with telling them apart when they/you speak english.

[Мастер]

New Zealand English doesn't sound like Australian English to me - I would be more likely to confuse it with South African.

It can be rather disturbing when a New Zealander asks you, "Do you have any plans today?"

[Heid the Ba]

I rarely here either so I have little frame of reference.

[Мастер]

I rarely here either so I have little frame of reference.

The quote I wrote in my previous post sounds like, "Do you have any plans to die?"

[MM_Dandy]

I've heard both, and find them equally hard to follow, especially with generous use of slang. I doubt I could tell you which was which just by listening to someone speak either, though.

[Мастер]

Wow, you folks are at risk of serious injury if you ever attend an All Blacks-Wallabies match.

[Heid the Ba]

The good thing about sporting events is that people tend to colour code themselves, but yes, I avoid making any comment on an antipodean's origins unless I am absolutely sure.

[Мастер]

http://s293.photobucket.com/user/ladies ... e.mp4.html