Now I've heard it all

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Now I've heard it all

Postby Enzo » Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:38 am

I still like the History Channel, lord knows why. Sometimes at dawn I can still see a show about WW2, or ancient Egypt, or anthropology. But usually evenings are full of ancient aliens building the pyramids. I can expect that guy with the wild inflated hair and a slight accent proclaiming aliens everywhere. And of course they are always looking for bigfoot in other shows. I know nothing about Oak Island, but that has a whole series. Guys are hunting for treasure buried there, but apparently the Ark of the Covenant may be buried there, and who knows, maybe even the Lindberg baby.

So the other day I tuned past and saw them off to the PAcific Northwest to hunt for bigfoot, and of course they had every expectations that THIS expedition would find him/them. When lo and behold, that same wild haired guy joins the group to research the growing likelihood that bigfoot is actually an alien.
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Re: Now I've heard it all

Postby Lance » Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:06 am

Yeah, it sure has gone down hill from what it used to be, hasn't it? I would have loved to see Giorgio Tsoukalos on the bigfoot show. I'll have to keep an eye out for it. I watch crap like that for the same reason my very liberal friends listen to Rush Limbaugh; to have a reason to puke.

The show about Oak Island is actually legit though. This is season 3 just starting.
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Re: Now I've heard it all

Postby Enzo » Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:19 pm

Legit in what sense? I looked up "oak Island" to find it is a real place with a history of people claiming treasure is buried there. But ark of the covenant??? Three seasons of digging around and finding nothing. I mean it is a real show, but they seems to shift around on what they are expecting to find. Pirates buried something 100 feet down 400 years ago? And we have reason to think it is right HERE, let's dig. Oh but we dug there last week, so let's go to Miami where someone offers an Atlantis connection and suggest we dig over at the other end, so we do. And so on.
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Re: Now I've heard it all

Postby Lianachan » Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:47 pm

Enzo wrote:Legit in what sense? I looked up "oak Island" to find it is a real place with a history of people claiming treasure is buried there. But ark of the covenant??? Three seasons of digging around and finding nothing. I mean it is a real show, but they seems to shift around on what they are expecting to find. Pirates buried something 100 feet down 400 years ago? And we have reason to think it is right HERE, let's dig. Oh but we dug there last week, so let's go to Miami where someone offers an Atlantis connection and suggest we dig over at the other end, so we do. And so on.

Yes, the Oak Island Money Pit is utter nonsense like the rest. Debunking pseudo history and pseudo archaeology is a favourite pass time of mine.
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Re: Now I've heard it all

Postby Lance » Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:00 am

Enzo wrote:Legit in what sense?

Never mind. I'd never heard the explanation that it was just a sink hole.
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Re: Now I've heard it all

Postby Lance » Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:15 pm

Season 4 of The Curse of Oak Island is currently under way and I must admit to the show being a guilty pleasure of mine. I'm not ready to write it all off as being complete and utter nonsense, yet.

I must also admit that it has become a bit intriguing lately. They are pulling up clearly hand-worked timbers, several of them including timbers, pegs, and wedges, that date back to 1575 +/- 20 years.

I don't buy into any of the "Ark of the Covenant" or "Knights Templar" garbage. That's all clearly added for dramatic effect. It is, after all, a TV show. But just because some of it is bullshit doesn't rule out the possibility that something is really buried there. Another part of the legend talks about these "box drains" that channel water in from the ocean to the pits as a booby trap. They uncovered the ocean end of those as well. They found channels filled with stones and covered with matts of coconut fiber. And I don't think Nova Scotia is part of the normal migration routes for coconuts.
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Re: Now I've heard it all

Postby Enzo » Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:36 am

Yep, carefully selected data arranged to fit the preconcieved history for it.

The whole idea of raiding some ships and accumulating booty only to then sail to some far flung out of the way isle to bury it all 100 feet deep in the sand, with the expectation that at some future time all the folks with a share in it would return and dig it up to allot the shares strikes me as ludicrous. If you went to Aruba, the Alamao, Mt Rushmore, wherever, and found a huge gold nugget, would you bury it 100 feet deep somewhere expecting to return in five years and find it still there? Or would you quick like a bunny get it to the nearest assay ofice?

The whole show hits me like a ghost hunt. Nothing is ever determined, nothing is found out, no advances are made.
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Re: Now I've heard it all

Postby Lance » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:33 pm

Do you watch it too?

It was a bit disappointing that, right after they brought up what I described above and I made that post, they found absolutely nothing more and almost threw in the towel.
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Re: Now I've heard it all

Postby g-one » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:21 pm

This show is a pet peeve of mine :mrgreen: . My brother & his wife watch it so sometimes I can not avoid it.
My understanding is that the 2 guys bought the island and this is a vehicle to generate tourism.
They just keep finding nothing and try to pull in new angles like the Templar or what have you.
I figure if they ever found anything we would hear about it and not have to wait for the show. I don't think they would be able to hide a significant discovery til the next season. Whether that means it's a bogus journey or not I don't know. Maybe these guys actually believe there may be something there, but I doubt it.
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Re: Now I've heard it all

Postby Lance » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:28 pm

I do believe they believe. They often speak of the old Reader's Digest article: (1965) Treasure Hunt: The Mystery of Oak Island that inspired them. And I remember reading that same article as a kid too. I'd have been 8.

Clearly a lot of what they present is made up bullshit and hype. I don't believe the Knights Templar hid the Ark of the Covenant there 800 years ago, or that a band of swashbucklers hid all their booty there. But they have found enough to disprove the idea that everything on the island is natural. So there's a pretty hard "no" on the sink hole idea.

That leaves us two possibilities, as I see it:

  1. All the evidence is completey fabricated and bogus.
  2. There is a story there, the details of which still elude us.
I am not blind to the possibility that it could very well be number 1, in that it's just a load of number 2. But there would have been at least some expense involved in faking everything with not too much return. The work going on there now is by far the greatest money ever put into it and I find it hard to believe the History Channel is covering all that.

Are there other possibilities I'm missing?
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Re: Now I've heard it all

Postby Enzo » Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:13 pm

History channel buys shows, they don't do research or fund research. After all, they produce a steady stream of Ancient Aliens shows. DO all those guys believe the ancient aliens exist? Don't know, does it matter? I think they know and believe they are selling a story.

This show is not a documentary, it is entertainment dressed as documentary. It is all edited for effect. Imagine you and I sitting around shooting the breeze over a few ales (or coffees). We record the discussion. I am sure we could edit that into a big argument easily enough. Or a plot. We see ads for the show, one guy says "Hey, look at this." and it cuts to surprised reactions on others. Watch the show to find the reactions are from an entirely different scene.

Do I believe their little back hoe is digging down 100 feet? No. Do I believe they are digging? Sure. When I see them dig up a little piece of rotted wood, and one guy says "AHA, this is PROOF of whatever" I think: No, it is a stick. FAking it? Hell, all they need is a digging machine poking around in the mud. That isn't expensive. They have a camera crew follow a few guys around.

I don't watch the show, but it is in the band of channels I surf a lot, and I wind up on it now and then. I watch a few minutes to see if anything is going on. And I agree with g-one, if they actually ever found anything, we'd know about it before it came out on one of their shows. I don't find any of the reality shows there intersting much. Don't care about the guys digging for gold or chopping down trees. Don;t care about the inbred Alaskans. Don't care about the various swamp people. I do watch some of the car guys, hey, I like old cars.
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Re: Now I've heard it all

Postby Lance » Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:51 pm

Enzo wrote:Do I believe their little back hoe is digging down 100 feet? No. Do I believe they are digging? Sure. When I see them dig up a little piece of rotted wood, and one guy says "AHA, this is PROOF of whatever" I think: No, it is a stick. FAking it? Hell, all they need is a digging machine poking around in the mud. That isn't expensive. They have a camera crew follow a few guys around.

This is the only part I have to disagree with. I don't remember what it's called, but they've brought in a crew that has equipment that cuts 30-some-odd inch diameter holes with a steel casing instead of a drill. It has teeth on the bottom and they turn it back and forth. It cuts and cases the hole at the same time. That's not cheap. They've got millions into what they're doing this year.

But regardless, apparently the season finale next week is the end of it, the end of the show completely.
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Re: Now I've heard it all

Postby Lianachan » Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:51 am

Lance wrote:I do believe they believe. They often speak of the old Reader's Digest article: (1965) Treasure Hunt: The Mystery of Oak Island that inspired them. And I remember reading that same article as a kid too. I'd have been 8.

Clearly a lot of what they present is made up bullshit and hype. I don't believe the Knights Templar hid the Ark of the Covenant there 800 years ago, or that a band of swashbucklers hid all their booty there. But they have found enough to disprove the idea that everything on the island is natural. So there's a pretty hard "no" on the sink hole idea.

That leaves us two possibilities, as I see it:

  1. All the evidence is completey fabricated and bogus.
  2. There is a story there, the details of which still elude us.
I am not blind to the possibility that it could very well be number 1, in that it's just a load of number 2. But there would have been at least some expense involved in faking everything with not too much return. The work going on there now is by far the greatest money ever put into it and I find it hard to believe the History Channel is covering all that.

Are there other possibilities I'm missing?


Did you see the link about Oak Island I posted earlier in the thread?
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Re: Now I've heard it all

Postby Lance » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:50 am

Lianachan wrote:Did you see the link about Oak Island I posted earlier in the thread?

Oh, apparently not. Looking now...

ETA: Okay, yes, I guess I do remember that. And I have to say, this paragraph also sounds suspiciously like the shoehorning of facts the article describes:
Rational Wiki wrote:Oak Island is dotted with natural sinkholes; surface depressions surrounded by disturbed earth and sand. If one were to excavate one of these sinkholes, they'd find fallen trees preserved as log fragments as well as natural layers of clay and rock located at various depths. And they'd run into the island's many natural subsurface channels and caves, also located at various depths, that act as conduits for sea water from the bay.


But that said, I suppose any of the clearly man-made things they've dug up could also have just washed in there. That does seem to make sense.

I doubt they'll ever find anything but if they do I won't be completely surprised. Like I've said, I don't believe there is some vast buried treasure there. I just haven't completely dismissed it yet.
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Re: Now I've heard it all

Postby g-one » Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:51 pm

Lance wrote:But regardless, apparently the season finale next week is the end of it, the end of the show completely.


I'm surprised, but good with that. ;)
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Re: Now I've heard it all

Postby Lianachan » Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:25 pm

g-one wrote:
Lance wrote:But regardless, apparently the season finale next week is the end of it, the end of the show completely.


I'm surprised, but good with that. ;)
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Re: Now I've heard it all

Postby Lianachan » Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:27 pm

Lance wrote:
Lianachan wrote:Did you see the link about Oak Island I posted earlier in the thread?

Oh, apparently not. Looking now...

ETA: Okay, yes, I guess I do remember that. And I have to say, this paragraph also sounds suspiciously like the shoehorning of facts the article describes:
Rational Wiki wrote:Oak Island is dotted with natural sinkholes; surface depressions surrounded by disturbed earth and sand. If one were to excavate one of these sinkholes, they'd find fallen trees preserved as log fragments as well as natural layers of clay and rock located at various depths. And they'd run into the island's many natural subsurface channels and caves, also located at various depths, that act as conduits for sea water from the bay.


But that said, I suppose any of the clearly man-made things they've dug up could also have just washed in there. That does seem to make sense.

I doubt they'll ever find anything but if they do I won't be completely surprised. Like I've said, I don't believe there is some vast buried treasure there. I just haven't completely dismissed it yet.

There's a difference between shoehorning facts and shoehorning bullshit and wild conjecture, but yes.
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Re: Now I've heard it all

Postby Lance » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:30 pm

Lianachan wrote:There's a difference between shoehorning facts and shoehorning bullshit and wild conjecture, but yes.

Well, they've recover hand-worked wood from over a hundred feet down that dates back to the late 1500s. And while I completely agree that it likely washed in there at some point, it doesn't rule out having been intentionally placed there.

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Re: Now I've heard it all

Postby g-one » Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:00 pm

Not meaning to belittle your entertainment, glad you enjoy it and hope you continue to do so. If you had to sit through it with some who were gullible about the side stories...
I think there are some great historical stories here and would love to see a proper documentary exploring them, there is a lot to cover.
As far as I know, the root newspaper story from 1795 about the pulley on a tree branch was never verifiable. So I've been fairly skeptical partly for that reason.
The book 'The Oak Island Mystery Solved' sounds interesting, speculating that it was a naval tar making operation.
Of course it speculates there might be other secrets buried there. ;)
http://thechronicleherald.ca/books/1322 ... l-treasure
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Re: Now I've heard it all

Postby Lance » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:58 am

I thought it was supposed to be done but it's been renewed for a fifth season after all.

Now they'll finally have a chance to find something. ;)
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Re: Now I've heard it all

Postby Enzo » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:43 pm

How many seasons did the ghost hunting show and the bigfoot hunting show last?
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Re: Now I've heard it all

Postby Lance » Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:06 pm

Looks like Ghost Hunters went for 11 seasons and Finding Bigfoot is in its 9th and still going.

Those shows are fake though.

;)
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Re: Now I've heard it all

Postby Enzo » Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:14 am

Then ther is hope for these guys to go another ten years finding nothing.
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Re: Now I've heard it all

Postby Lance » Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:07 am

Yeah, maybe, but they're SO close.
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Re: Now I've heard it all

Postby Enzo » Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:55 am

You may be right, I have tuned in and seen them actually dig up a piece of wood.
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