8" Floppies

[Heid the Ba]

We sleep peacefully in our beds because rough men stand ready with 8 inch floppies . . .

Admin Note:
Spilt from Long Serving Military Aircraft

[Arneb]

I read that, too, but what I don't get is why the age f the system is a problem in and of itself. If it's working, why isn't it fine? And AFAIK, nobody yet wrote a virus propagating through 8" floppies. Remember the virus that ruined the Iranian centrifuges that had top-notch USB ports?

[Lance]

Yeah, I was thinking along those lines as well.

[Мастер]

I also have no knowledge of any such viruses, but if something uses 8" disks, presumably that means the OS was written many decades ago? Before people really worried about viruses?

[Lance]

Good point. Office data processing back then was all main frames and terminals. I don't think viruses were a thing until personal computers came into existence.

[Мастер]

What I am wondering is, whether the OS might have no natural immunity to viruses.

But then, the virus must somehow be gotten onto the relevant machines. If no further software development is being done on these systems, perhaps they occupy a totally isolated ecosystem, with no contact with the outside world?

[Lance]

I don't think those systems have ever had contact with the outside world.

[Мастер]

I don't think those systems have ever had contact with the outside world.

I wonder whether they still develop software for them. If not, then they can be completely cut off. If so, then the software could be developed on these creaky old systems themselves, in which case they could still form an isolated ecosystem. Or it could be done on more modern systems, running an IBM 360 virtual machine. If the latter case, then there would have to be some way to get the software from the development systems to the production systems.

[Arneb]

Great movie stuff. Russian spy smuggles in a virus for the US atomic weapons control system on punch cards. In the final melee in the control room he manages to insert them in the slot only to be shot seconds too late. But he has mixed up the last card with a decoy which is his stunningly-looking, big-breasted unfatihful co-conspirator inserted into the stack. But the decoy has been manipulated by a computer wiz-kid who wanted to prove a point to his girlfriend who rejected him for his zits. Now the countdown is ticking for an all-out rocket attack on the USSR, no computer specialist in the Army, the Navy, the Air Forca and the DoD doesn't know how to stop it and they have to find the wiz-kid who has gone out into the wild sobbing for his lost love. Da-da-daaaa-da-daaaada-da-daaaah

Hollywood. I am awaiting your call.

[Heid the Ba]

I think we have a movie right here! Traditionally it is a tape of band music hidden down the back of the sidekick's bikini bottom but your way works as well.

"his stunningly-looking, big-breasted unfatihful co-conspirator" any idea where you can find one of these? Asking for a friend.

[Arneb]

We'll call her Bewbs Galore.

[Enzo]

On the other hand if it works...

I have to say an abacus works as well today as it did a thousand years ago.

And I bet those 8" floppies have never yet begged for the system to upgrade to Windows 10.

And all you IT guys, who do you know that can hack a 56 year old system anymore? I know NASA has data stored from old satellite telemetry that no one now knows how to interpret.

[Lance]

I tend to agree. These are more "control systems" than they are "work stations". And as such, wouldn't be upgraded other than to fix things. Once they work as required then I don't think there would be further development. A computerized emission control in your car would be one example of a system like this, or computer numerical control (CNC) machine tools. One they come off the line they are what they are. And machine tools can work for decades.

[MM_Dandy]

Yeah, the only reason to change would be for hardware issues.

[Lance]

Would we feel better if they were 3 1/2" floppies? The drives would, most likely, be easy to swap out. The floppy controller interface has been the same since dinosaurs.

[Arneb]

We should probably stick with 8" because the russkies don't have any. Also, pieces of old hardware will come in handy once Voyager 6 returns.

[Lance]

Here's an interesting article about why the technology is still a thing:

Think the floppy disk is dead? Think again! Here’s why it still stands between us and a nuclear apocalypse

"In the 1990s, hundreds of thousands of industrial machines were built around floppy disks, which were high-tech of the time." ... "They were built to last fifty years."

The Nuclear Floppy

Last year, a broadcast of 60 Minutes surprised many viewers with the discovery that 8-inch floppy disks were still the preferred method of removable storage for the computers in a U.S. Air Force nuclear silo. That report indicated that changes were in the pipeline, but the security of this outmoded technology was difficult to replicate with modern materials.

Speaking to a representative of the United States Air Force Global Strike Command, I found that this was still the case some 18 months since that report initially aired. “The floppy disks and associated technology are tried and true,” I was told. “As you can imagine, we want to ensure the utmost in reliability and efficacy when operating such a critical weapon system. Therefore, if a system is ‘old,’ but still reliable, we are inclined to use it.”

One of the biggest advantages of keeping the system in place, outside of the decades of means-testing that it has undergone, is the fact that it’s far removed from modern computing. The reliance on old-fashioned floppies means there’s no need for an Internet connection, and that narrows the possibility of cyber-assault considerably.

“Integrating new technology requires exhaustive procurement and testing to ensure we comply with exacting and non-negotiable Department of Defense standards,” was the official line given to me. However, my contact was keen to note that the United States Air Force is “interested in any new and equally reliable technology.”

The key word here is reliability — and that’s likely the reason floppy disks are still being used in medical equipment, ATMs, and aviation hardware as Tom mentioned. The cutting edge of technology is fine for your smartphone or a video game console. But when it comes to mission-critical hardware that literally controls a potential nuclear holocaust, “tried and true” carries more weight than “new and improved.”