Some Questions About God

Is it okay to kill in the name of God? Can ethics, morals and technology peacefully co-exist?

Some Questions About God

Postby Lance » Wed Jun 29, 2016 5:50 pm

(Based on this conversation.)

Lance wrote:But let me ask you; would you be interested in trying to tackle some of the questions of logic some of us have? It seems difficult to try to find answers to some of these questions without someone getting offended.

MM_Dandy wrote:Sure, fire away.
No trees were killed in the posting of this message.
However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

==========================================

Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a few hours.
Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
User avatar
Lance
Administrator
Administrator
Cheeseburger Swilling Lard-Ass who needs to put down the remote and get off the couch.
 
Posts: 64614
Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 5:51 pm
Location: Oswego, IL

Re: Some Questions About God

Postby Lance » Wed Jun 29, 2016 5:54 pm

Here are a couple:

If God is all seeing, knowing, and powerful; how can anything happen that is not His Will?

If everything happens for a reason, or is according to God's Plan, how:
  • Can prayer ever change anything?
  • Can abortion be wrong?
  • Is it okay to hate gay people?
No trees were killed in the posting of this message.
However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

==========================================

Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a few hours.
Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
User avatar
Lance
Administrator
Administrator
Cheeseburger Swilling Lard-Ass who needs to put down the remote and get off the couch.
 
Posts: 64614
Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 5:51 pm
Location: Oswego, IL

Re: Some Questions About God

Postby Enzo » Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:12 am

God created the universe and everything in it. Why did he create Satan? Why did he create flawed humans rather than ones with the built in desire to obey the rules?

Even given free will, our inner construct determines our behavior. Since god made us, how can he be angry with what we do?

I never understood prayer. God would let you die or let some woe befall you, UNLESS you beg for otherwise? He already knows my hamster is dying or my football team is losing, or a member of my church is dying of cancer. He turns it into a quid pro quo?

When i encounter proselytizers, I usually tell them that all you need to know about the bible is in the 6th chapter of Matthew. Among which: do not pray for what you want, god already knows what you need. Sums it up well, I think.

Matthew further tells us not to pray for what we want, but to pray that god's will be done. In fact that is where the "Lord's Prayer" comes from.
E Pluribus Condom
User avatar
Enzo
Enlightened One
Enlightened One
Chortling with glee!
 
Posts: 11209
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 5:30 am
Location: Lansing, Michigan

Re: Some Questions About God

Postby tubeswell » Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:32 am

Lance wrote:If God is all seeing, knowing, and powerful; how can anything happen that is not His Will?


What if this god is female?

Lance wrote:If everything happens for a reason, or is according to God's Plan, how:
  • Can prayer ever change anything?


Prayer is a subconscious plea for absolution, the act of which alleviates those who pray from taking responsibility for getting themselves out of whatever present predicament assails them. So its a mild form of drug use.

Lance wrote:If everything happens for a reason, or is according to God's Plan, how:
  • Can abortion be wrong?


Freedom of choice must be part of this god's plan.

Lance wrote:If everything happens for a reason, or is according to God's Plan, how:
  • Is it okay to hate gay people?


Even gay people can be a pain in the arse I guess.
A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops. On my desk, I have a work station.
User avatar
tubeswell
Enlightened One
Enlightened One
 
Posts: 64608
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:51 am
Location: 129th in-line to the Llama Throne (after the last purge)

Re: Some Questions About God

Postby Lianachan » Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:21 pm

tubeswell wrote:Even gay people can be a pain in the arse I guess.


:glp-rimshot:
A-nis bidh fios aig daoine nuair a tha mi a 'mionnachadh aig dhaibh.
User avatar
Lianachan
Enlightened One
Enlightened One
Tits and Nazis though.... Worth investigating
 
Posts: 6437
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:12 pm
Location: A' Ghàidhealtachd, Alba

Re: Some Questions About God

Postby Dragon Star » Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:30 am

These questions sound similar to our facebook debate. Did that have some influence in your specific questions or you just had them anyway?
User avatar
Dragon Star
Enlightened One
Enlightened One
 
Posts: 12584
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:37 pm
Location: Islamorada, FL

Re: Some Questions About God

Postby Lance » Sun Jul 03, 2016 3:57 am

Dragon Star wrote:These questions sound similar to our facebook debate. Did that have some influence in your specific questions or you just had them anyway?

We had a Facebook debate? Which sides were we on?
No trees were killed in the posting of this message.
However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

==========================================

Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a few hours.
Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
User avatar
Lance
Administrator
Administrator
Cheeseburger Swilling Lard-Ass who needs to put down the remote and get off the couch.
 
Posts: 64614
Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 5:51 pm
Location: Oswego, IL

Re: Some Questions About God

Postby Dragon Star » Mon Jul 04, 2016 2:44 am

Lance wrote:
Dragon Star wrote:These questions sound similar to our facebook debate. Did that have some influence in your specific questions or you just had them anyway?

We had a Facebook debate? Which sides were we on?


Ha, yea we were having a conversation months ago on the very topic but it happened to be on someone else's page and they got all pissed off when we started ganging up on her. I was implying that logically God is either not omnipotent nor omnipresent, or there is no such thing as free will. Under no circumstances can both exist.
User avatar
Dragon Star
Enlightened One
Enlightened One
 
Posts: 12584
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:37 pm
Location: Islamorada, FL

Re: Some Questions About God

Postby Lance » Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:18 am

Dragon Star wrote:
Lance wrote:
Dragon Star wrote:These questions sound similar to our facebook debate. Did that have some influence in your specific questions or you just had them anyway?

We had a Facebook debate? Which sides were we on?

Ha, yea we were having a conversation months ago on the very topic but it happened to be on someone else's page and they got all pissed off when we started ganging up on her. I was implying that logically God is either not omnipotent nor omnipresent, or there is no such thing as free will. Under no circumstances can both exist.

Ah, yes, I remember now. Tanya's page. You and I were on the same side.

I think these questions are pretty universal...
No trees were killed in the posting of this message.
However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

==========================================

Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a few hours.
Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
User avatar
Lance
Administrator
Administrator
Cheeseburger Swilling Lard-Ass who needs to put down the remote and get off the couch.
 
Posts: 64614
Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 5:51 pm
Location: Oswego, IL

Re: Some Questions About God

Postby Dragon Star » Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:02 pm

Question is how can it not be more universal. I think I could play devil's advocate on just about any topic as I love to debate, but that's the one thing I could never argue is the existence of God through logic. As close as I can come is that A) God is a being or beings that spread live to Earth in order to use us as a case study but is both neither omnipresent or omnipotent, or B) We're in a Matrix style simulation as argued by the statistics of base reality.

Under that, it's stipulated that the odds are somewhere around one in one billion that we are not part of a simulation under a more advanced civilization.
User avatar
Dragon Star
Enlightened One
Enlightened One
 
Posts: 12584
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:37 pm
Location: Islamorada, FL

Re: Some Questions About God

Postby Lance » Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:12 pm

Um, what is "more universal" than universal? I don't understand.
No trees were killed in the posting of this message.
However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

==========================================

Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a few hours.
Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
User avatar
Lance
Administrator
Administrator
Cheeseburger Swilling Lard-Ass who needs to put down the remote and get off the couch.
 
Posts: 64614
Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 5:51 pm
Location: Oswego, IL

Re: Some Questions About God

Postby Dragon Star » Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:22 pm

Lance wrote:Um, what is "more universal" than universal? I don't understand.


If the universe as we understand it is not the universe at all, but just a program. Much like the multiverse theory only a true and false. Odds are, we live in a false.
User avatar
Dragon Star
Enlightened One
Enlightened One
 
Posts: 12584
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:37 pm
Location: Islamorada, FL

Re: Some Questions About God

Postby Lance » Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:26 pm

I'm familiar with the multiverse theory but I'm still not quite picking up what you're saying.

Are you talking about the idea that we're all just living in a simulation being run by some advanced intelligence that exists outside of our universe or multiverse?
No trees were killed in the posting of this message.
However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

==========================================

Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a few hours.
Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
User avatar
Lance
Administrator
Administrator
Cheeseburger Swilling Lard-Ass who needs to put down the remote and get off the couch.
 
Posts: 64614
Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 5:51 pm
Location: Oswego, IL

Re: Some Questions About God

Postby Dragon Star » Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:46 pm

I entertain the possibility. Again, gut feeling says no, but statistically it makes more sense than not. It's very abstract but the more I've pondered it, the more logical it is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation_hypothesis

Very recently Elon Musk had a media frenzy about this theory as he believes it to be true.
User avatar
Dragon Star
Enlightened One
Enlightened One
 
Posts: 12584
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:37 pm
Location: Islamorada, FL

Re: Some Questions About God

Postby Lance » Mon Jul 04, 2016 9:20 pm

A lot of very smart people entertain this possibility. And if the universe is infinite, then even the most improbable must eventually happen.
No trees were killed in the posting of this message.
However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

==========================================

Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a few hours.
Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
User avatar
Lance
Administrator
Administrator
Cheeseburger Swilling Lard-Ass who needs to put down the remote and get off the couch.
 
Posts: 64614
Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 5:51 pm
Location: Oswego, IL

Re: Some Questions About God

Postby Dragon Star » Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:45 pm

Lance wrote:A lot of very smart people entertain this possibility. And if the universe is infinite, then even the most improbable must eventually happen.


You mean infinite multiverse, right? I have a much harder time with a infinite universe, the very concept doesn't make sense to me. Brane theory leading to a multiverse though collisions makes sense...but if anything had a beginning it can't be infinite, and flies in the face of universal expansion. Even if math says it's possible my mind can't grasp the concept of something going from finite to infinite, and something had to come before nothing. The universe as we know it is easily explained, but it's what was first, before anything...that's the question humanity either can never answer, or we actually are in a false reality and that is the explanation itself.

I have the same problem with God. If God created everything and i'm fine with that, what created God? Had to be something before it.
User avatar
Dragon Star
Enlightened One
Enlightened One
 
Posts: 12584
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:37 pm
Location: Islamorada, FL

Re: Some Questions About God

Postby Lance » Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:56 pm

Dragon Star wrote:You mean infinite multiverse, right?

An infinite universe or infinite universes in a multiverse are two competing ideas.


Dragon Star wrote:I have a much harder time with a infinite universe, the very concept doesn't make sense to me. Brane theory leading to a multiverse though collisions makes sense...but if anything had a beginning it can't be infinite, and flies in the face of universal expansion. Even if math says it's possible my mind can't grasp the concept of something going from finite to infinite, and something had to come before nothing. The universe as we know it is easily explained, but it's what was first, before anything...that's the question humanity either can never answer, or we actually are in a false reality and that is the explanation itself.

I have the same problem with God. If God created everything and i'm fine with that, what created God? Had to be something before it.

I think you are confusing the universe with the observable universe. If TBBT is correct, the observable universe had a finite beginning. But that is different that the universe, into which the observable universe is expanding.


Dragon Star wrote:the very concept doesn't make sense to me

And once it does, we have become God.
No trees were killed in the posting of this message.
However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

==========================================

Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a few hours.
Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
User avatar
Lance
Administrator
Administrator
Cheeseburger Swilling Lard-Ass who needs to put down the remote and get off the couch.
 
Posts: 64614
Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 5:51 pm
Location: Oswego, IL

Re: Some Questions About God

Postby Dragon Star » Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:45 pm

I'm aware the universe is much larger than the observable universe in an unknown fashion, but the only difference is the speed of light in relation to us. Why would the observable universe expand when the universe itself can not? If it has infinite size, then it has been around for infinite time, where would all of the new matter come from? This would mean that protons don't decay in 10^33 years (or ever). Either space/time is expanding and accelerating or it's not.

For this reason I look at the term infinine as a purely philosophical one, not a scientific one.
User avatar
Dragon Star
Enlightened One
Enlightened One
 
Posts: 12584
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:37 pm
Location: Islamorada, FL

Re: Some Questions About God

Postby Lance » Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:47 pm

I don't claim to understand it... Google the question "If TBBT is correct, how can the universe be infinite?"
No trees were killed in the posting of this message.
However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

==========================================

Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a few hours.
Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
User avatar
Lance
Administrator
Administrator
Cheeseburger Swilling Lard-Ass who needs to put down the remote and get off the couch.
 
Posts: 64614
Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 5:51 pm
Location: Oswego, IL

Re: Some Questions About God

Postby tubeswell » Tue Jul 05, 2016 12:18 am

Dragon Star wrote:I'm aware the universe is much larger than the observable universe in an unknown fashion, but the only difference is the speed of light in relation to us. ...


The multiverse hypothetically consists of infinite parallel universes with an infinite number of temporal origins. How should we determine the relative speed of light or any of those universes in relation to us?
A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops. On my desk, I have a work station.
User avatar
tubeswell
Enlightened One
Enlightened One
 
Posts: 64608
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:51 am
Location: 129th in-line to the Llama Throne (after the last purge)

Re: Some Questions About God

Postby Dragon Star » Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:16 am

tubeswell wrote:
Dragon Star wrote:I'm aware the universe is much larger than the observable universe in an unknown fashion, but the only difference is the speed of light in relation to us. ...


The multiverse hypothetically consists of infinite parallel universes with an infinite number of temporal origins. How should we determine the relative speed of light or any of those universes in relation to us?


Hypothetically, the only potentially detectable thing between individual multiverses is gravity. As far as parallel universes, theories suggest that the reason quantum mechanics is so weird is because of superposition of a particle existing in both ours and a parallel universe simultaneously. Perhaps communications between parallel universes could place some sort of cosmological constant between two very similar universes to calculate SOL relative to us. It's rather outlandish, but as said...hypothetical.

As far as the notion of infinity, math suggests that infinity is not a number. I can use an equation with infinity to prove that 1=0 which is false, so I'm skeptical that it's possible.
User avatar
Dragon Star
Enlightened One
Enlightened One
 
Posts: 12584
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:37 pm
Location: Islamorada, FL

Re: Some Questions About God

Postby Lance » Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:51 am

Dragon Star wrote:As far as the notion of infinity, math suggests that infinity is not a number.

Who ever said it is a number? I think infinity exists outside the realm of numbers. It is something you can go toward but never reach. Kind of like that one 18 year old blonde girl.

Dragon Star wrote:I can use an equation with infinity to prove that 1=0 which is false, so I'm skeptical that it's possible.

Can you show us that equation?
No trees were killed in the posting of this message.
However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

==========================================

Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a few hours.
Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
User avatar
Lance
Administrator
Administrator
Cheeseburger Swilling Lard-Ass who needs to put down the remote and get off the couch.
 
Posts: 64614
Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 5:51 pm
Location: Oswego, IL

Re: Some Questions About God

Postby Dragon Star » Fri Jul 15, 2016 1:40 am

Lance wrote:Kind of like that one 18 year old blonde girl.


Mystery solved, lol. That's how I attempt to look at it anyhow, ideas. It's still too much for me to handle the concept, that which has a beginning has an end, so what before the beginning if a beginning does not exist? I have this very issue with God. As a concept it's okay, but he did not make himself, sooooooo?

Lance wrote:
Dragon Star wrote:I can use an equation with infinity to prove that 1=0 which is false, so I'm skeptical that it's possible.

Can you show us that equation?



1 + ∞ = ∞
(1 + ∞) - ∞ = ∞ - ∞
1 + (∞ - ∞) = ∞ - ∞
1 = 0
User avatar
Dragon Star
Enlightened One
Enlightened One
 
Posts: 12584
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:37 pm
Location: Islamorada, FL

Re: Some Questions About God

Postby tubeswell » Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:04 am

So its feasible to have x, y, and z axes which each represent a gradation between dichotomies of implied magnitude on a continuum from 0 to infinity (or even going from infinitesimal to infinite) without worrying about real numbers? Cool way to deconstruct maths. This supports my argument about not being able to disprove the existence of continua. #-o
A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops. On my desk, I have a work station.
User avatar
tubeswell
Enlightened One
Enlightened One
 
Posts: 64608
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:51 am
Location: 129th in-line to the Llama Throne (after the last purge)

Re: Some Questions About God

Postby Lance » Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:35 am

Dragon Star wrote:1 + ∞ = ∞

I'm not sure I buy into this. And if this isn't valid then neither is what follows.

Mactep, we need you.
No trees were killed in the posting of this message.
However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

==========================================

Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a few hours.
Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
User avatar
Lance
Administrator
Administrator
Cheeseburger Swilling Lard-Ass who needs to put down the remote and get off the couch.
 
Posts: 64614
Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 5:51 pm
Location: Oswego, IL

Next

Return to Religion and Spirituality

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests