Brexit Delay

Discussions of things currently in the news.

Re: Brexit Delay

Postby Мастер » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:06 pm

I'm trying to find out more information about this law that just passed about pre-empting a no-deal Brexit, but I can't find much.

The one source I found says the law compels IM Mai to do what she is already doing, and that it does not really do anything to prevent a no-deal Brexit - it stops the PM from agreeing to it, but it could still happen by default, and that has always looked like the way it was going to happen anyway.

Is that accurate?
Death seed, blind man's greed
Poets starving, children bleed
Nothing he's got he really needs
Twenty-first century schizoid man
User avatar
Мастер
Moderator
Moderator
Злой Мудак
Mauerspecht
 
Posts: 20733
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:56 pm
Location: Far from Damascus

Re: Brexit Delay

Postby Heid the Ba » Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:28 pm

As I understand it, yes. Mai can't agree to a no deal Brexit but that will happen on Friday unless the EU agrees otherwise or the UK withdraws Article 50 which it can do unilaterally. The thinking is that it will force a revocation of Article 50 but there is no guarantee it will.
Get it up ye.
User avatar
Heid the Ba
Enlightened One
Enlightened One
Tree hugging, veggie, sandal wearing, pinko Euroweasel
Mr. Sexy Ass
 
Posts: 51598
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:20 pm
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Re: Brexit Delay

Postby Мастер » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:18 pm

Heid the Ba wrote:As I understand it, yes. Mai can't agree to a no deal Brexit but that will happen on Friday unless the EU agrees otherwise or the UK withdraws Article 50 which it can do unilaterally. The thinking is that it will force a revocation of Article 50 but there is no guarantee it will.


So she is not allowed to pursue actively a no-deal Brexit, but she is allowed to have it happen by inaction or by unsuccessful action. Is that right?
Death seed, blind man's greed
Poets starving, children bleed
Nothing he's got he really needs
Twenty-first century schizoid man
User avatar
Мастер
Moderator
Moderator
Злой Мудак
Mauerspecht
 
Posts: 20733
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:56 pm
Location: Far from Damascus

Re: Brexit Delay

Postby Arneb » Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:22 pm

The thiniking is, probably, she is bound by the no-No Deal vote, so if it's Friday afternoon and no deal looms, unilateral revocation is the only thing that's left.

I think the law was enacted to make sure that she can't simply let the membership peter out through inaction. If Parliament tells her to revoke art. 50, she has to do it. Unfortunately, Paliament won't tell her to do that. No majority. And Jacob Reek-Fuck and Boris Fannybaws Johnson WILL get their moment of champagne.
Non sunt multiplicanda entia praeter necessitatem
User avatar
Arneb
Moderator
Moderator
German Medical Dude
God of All Things IT
 
Posts: 39655
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:22 pm
Location: Potsdam, Germany

Re: Brexit Delay

Postby Arneb » Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:27 am

Extension until 31 Oct. Whoda thunk: Posturing from France, compromise in the end.

If I were Mutti, I'd keep Oct. 29 and 30 blocked in the calendar because there sure will be some dramatic pre-finally-finally-really-really-last-penultimate-day-before-Brexit drama to make time for.

Otherwise: Happy European Election day to all our friends here :D. I wonder who fears them more, the Brexiteer or the Ramain crowd.

Oh, and we might be able to use the autumn holidays for a trip to Britain as an EU country, not needing visa and stuff. Hmmmmm.
Non sunt multiplicanda entia praeter necessitatem
User avatar
Arneb
Moderator
Moderator
German Medical Dude
God of All Things IT
 
Posts: 39655
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:22 pm
Location: Potsdam, Germany

Re: Brexit Delay

Postby Richard A » Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:47 pm

Arneb, from your side of the Channel, what was the spat between Macron and a lot of the others about? Your earlier point that Europeans were thinking, “Enough already!” made sense. But when Macron said pretty much that, even Juncker is reported to have slapped him down saying this was not about French domestic issues. And Roettgen apparently accused Macron of an agenda for the EU which he by implication did not support.
Richard A
Armchair Skeptic
Armchair Skeptic
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 6:10 pm

Re: Brexit Delay

Postby Arneb » Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:29 pm

I think Juncker was right. The extension question was indeed existential, and Macron's posturing was indeed about Macron appearing strong to his domestic electorate.

I think the way they arrived at Halloween was, OK, it can't be short anymore, cuz European elections loom. It can't be Jne 30 cuz that's what IM Mai said all along, and why didn't we give it to her right away. It can't be a year cuz why should we follow British orders. They are the beggars, we are the choosers. Given IM Mai and Comrade Corbyn have just about begun having a serious conversation, it doesn't make sense to open the next round of approaching-deadline brinkmanship, so something like 31 July is too short, and please, can we go on holiday in the summer while you sort yourself out on the other side of the Channel. So Oct 31 is sort of kind of the day you'd arrive at.

The Labour Brexit negotiator said today, one of the main problems is, how can we make a Tory government stick to what IM Mai negotiated when she won't be there anymore the day after the UK leaves the EU. That sounds like two things: That, a, they have something they could agree on, and, b, how indeed can they make the hard Brexiteer likely to take over from IM Mai to fuck them all with a bicg fucky thing and non-negotiate a hard Brexit after the fact? Mai being Mai, Corbyn being Corbyn and Johnson being Johnson, that is probably the very point that will deliver no-deal in the end.
Non sunt multiplicanda entia praeter necessitatem
User avatar
Arneb
Moderator
Moderator
German Medical Dude
God of All Things IT
 
Posts: 39655
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:22 pm
Location: Potsdam, Germany

Re: Brexit Delay

Postby Lianachan » Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:55 pm

Catastrophic no-deal Brexit delayed until the end of October, then. In the meantime, still seems like as far as parliament is concerned we’re not allowed another referendum. Not allowed to change our minds once after three years, even though those scheming fucks change their minds all the bastard time and nobody knew what Brexit actually would mean.

Would you like some ice-cream?
Yes please.
I make it from the tampons I stick up my dog’s arse.
Umm... no thanks, then.
Ice-cream means ice-cream! Eat it!
A-nis bidh fios aig daoine nuair a tha mi a 'mionnachadh aig dhaibh.
User avatar
Lianachan
Enlightened One
Enlightened One
Tits and Nazis though.... Worth investigating
 
Posts: 6575
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:12 pm
Location: A' Ghàidhealtachd, Alba

Re: Brexit Delay

Postby Richard A » Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:58 pm

I posted an adaptation of that - only 1 person seemed to get the point.

Cambridge is an echo chamber - one of the most pro-Remain places there is. But Arneb, I don't think Mutti need block out 30-31 Oktober in her diary - unless of course she feels like a night out of mussels, fries and Belgian beer with some of her colleagues. (That famous post-dinner drink on the Grand Place seems so long ago now!) The UK either puts forward a credible deal backed by Parliament (or cancels Brexit altogether) by then or leaves without a deal. But at the same time, the length of the extension does encourage pushing for another referendum since there's less risk of the sand timer running out in the meantime.

Which brings us on to another point. Suppose Article 50 were revoked. Where would that leave the EU? Legally, the answer is clear: with 28 Member States. But an Austrian colleague, when I said that the UK remaining after all would be decidedly problematic for the EU, called that "the understatement of the week". I'm not talking here about Jacob Reek-Fuck and his band stirring it in Brussels / Strasbourg - if Article 50 were actually revoked, they'd get less out of doing so. I'm talking about how the hell the EU rebuilds with the UK still in the club. One option is of course a major extension of qualified majority voting, so the UK becomes irrelevant until such time as it suits the EU27/EU30/whatever otherwise. But another is an opportunity that is there for the taking (actually, whether the UK leaves or goes): now that the EU has made clear that its core principles matter, that has implications for dealing with those who are not proposing to leave but don't like the EU's core values either.

Arneb, does that answer your question as to who fears the UK taking part in the European Parliament elections more? As someone who's no supporter of the ERG, I'm not afraid of them. But it is clear that we need to take them more seriously than ever before.
Richard A
Armchair Skeptic
Armchair Skeptic
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 6:10 pm

Re: Brexit Delay

Postby Arneb » Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:21 pm

It's a depressing thought that, actually, the EU should not any more wish art. 50 to be withdrawn. But it may indeed be better that way.

However, I do doubt that more integration at the moment is the right road to take. Support in member countries, even the Netherlands or Germany, is variable and somewhat tenuous - Rememeber how a Dutch referendum brought down the EU/Ukraine association treaty because the anti-EU crowd saw an opportunity to stick it to them up there in Brussels? The EU's concerns should be China (as a competitor), Russia (as an enemy), stabilizing the economy, rallying support for the European idea and asserting the rule of law in all the member countries. Refugees, too. We can't say the EU wants to create a better continent and at the same time allow Moria, Idomeni, or the Jungle, to happen. That will keep us busy for some time, and with all of these points, the UK would have been a strong ally in all of this. I am not sure introducing more majority vote will help in any of this.
Non sunt multiplicanda entia praeter necessitatem
User avatar
Arneb
Moderator
Moderator
German Medical Dude
God of All Things IT
 
Posts: 39655
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:22 pm
Location: Potsdam, Germany

Re: Brexit Delay

Postby Arneb » Thu May 23, 2019 1:41 pm

OK, so Andrea Leadsom left IM Mai's cabinet because the PM got soft on a new referendum. Everyone awaits Mai's resignation basically any minute now. Dominic Raab and Boris Johnson seem to be the base's favourites for her succession.

Can anyone here think of any way how a no-deal Brexit could be avoided if that came to pass? I always had the feeling this would be the way things turned out, but I don't see any way anymore to avoid it now.
Non sunt multiplicanda entia praeter necessitatem
User avatar
Arneb
Moderator
Moderator
German Medical Dude
God of All Things IT
 
Posts: 39655
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:22 pm
Location: Potsdam, Germany

Re: Brexit Delay

Postby Arneb » Thu May 23, 2019 1:56 pm

And a question: Does the UK vote for its European MPs in the same way as for Westminster, by first-past-the-post ajority vote, or is it by proportional representation?
Non sunt multiplicanda entia praeter necessitatem
User avatar
Arneb
Moderator
Moderator
German Medical Dude
God of All Things IT
 
Posts: 39655
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:22 pm
Location: Potsdam, Germany

Re: Brexit Delay

Postby Heid the Ba » Thu May 23, 2019 2:00 pm

PR, using something called the D'Hondt system, a name I hadn't heard before today. Regional lists essentially.
Get it up ye.
User avatar
Heid the Ba
Enlightened One
Enlightened One
Tree hugging, veggie, sandal wearing, pinko Euroweasel
Mr. Sexy Ass
 
Posts: 51598
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:20 pm
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Re: Brexit Delay

Postby Heid the Ba » Thu May 23, 2019 2:03 pm

Arneb wrote:Can anyone here think of any way how a no-deal Brexit could be avoided if that came to pass? I always had the feeling this would be the way things turned out, but I don't see any way anymore to avoid it now.

They wait and see what today's results are to see if they want to jump in now or let Mai swing. They will be prepared to nobly change their minds for the good of the country if Leave gets a kicking.

Edit: spelling
Get it up ye.
User avatar
Heid the Ba
Enlightened One
Enlightened One
Tree hugging, veggie, sandal wearing, pinko Euroweasel
Mr. Sexy Ass
 
Posts: 51598
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:20 pm
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Re: Brexit Delay

Postby Arneb » Thu May 23, 2019 4:49 pm

Heid the Ba wrote:PR, using something called the D'Hondt system, a name I hadn't heard before today. Regional lists essentially.

Hey, that's what we use, too! Serves us conitnentals right that the UK treats us with disdain for making tem succumb to our abhorrent continental ways. If you have to use their voting systems, you could have invited Hitler right in, couldn't you. OTOH, maybe if you don't tell the English, maybe they won't notice. :-$
Non sunt multiplicanda entia praeter necessitatem
User avatar
Arneb
Moderator
Moderator
German Medical Dude
God of All Things IT
 
Posts: 39655
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:22 pm
Location: Potsdam, Germany

Re: Brexit Delay

Postby Мастер » Fri May 24, 2019 11:00 am

Brexit now someone else's problem.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48395905
Death seed, blind man's greed
Poets starving, children bleed
Nothing he's got he really needs
Twenty-first century schizoid man
User avatar
Мастер
Moderator
Moderator
Злой Мудак
Mauerspecht
 
Posts: 20733
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:56 pm
Location: Far from Damascus

Re: Brexit Delay

Postby Arneb » Fri May 24, 2019 11:05 am

Well, our problem, basically.

I have little respect for IM Mai, but the way her party has treated her - basically roasting her to death on slow heat - is beyond unforgiveable.
Non sunt multiplicanda entia praeter necessitatem
User avatar
Arneb
Moderator
Moderator
German Medical Dude
God of All Things IT
 
Posts: 39655
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:22 pm
Location: Potsdam, Germany

Re: Brexit Delay

Postby Heid the Ba » Fri May 24, 2019 1:10 pm

The important thing to remember about I M Mai is that not only was she a bumbling incompetent trying to force through Brexit, she was actively evil as Home Secretary.
Get it up ye.
User avatar
Heid the Ba
Enlightened One
Enlightened One
Tree hugging, veggie, sandal wearing, pinko Euroweasel
Mr. Sexy Ass
 
Posts: 51598
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:20 pm
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Re: Brexit Delay

Postby Arneb » Fri May 24, 2019 1:26 pm

I both agree and disagree with that assessment. Incompetent for steering Britain through Brexit, OK, but it should not be forgotten that The Deal (T.M.) has to sides, and the opposite side (a.k.a "The Continent") does not think it is a bad deal. Acitvely evil, yes, but at least she tried to do a job she felt she had to do, and all the assholes who now have brought her down are way more evil than she ever was, at least as as Prime Minister.

Also , that she was brought down for collaboration with the enemy and trying to avoid no deal is evil enough in itself.
Non sunt multiplicanda entia praeter necessitatem
User avatar
Arneb
Moderator
Moderator
German Medical Dude
God of All Things IT
 
Posts: 39655
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:22 pm
Location: Potsdam, Germany

Re: Brexit Delay

Postby Мастер » Fri May 24, 2019 1:46 pm

Arneb wrote:Also , that she was brought down for collaboration with the enemy and trying to avoid no deal is evil enough in itself.


Well, the next PM will face the same difficult task, and she’ll still be an MP, so guess what she gets to do now? :twisted:
Death seed, blind man's greed
Poets starving, children bleed
Nothing he's got he really needs
Twenty-first century schizoid man
User avatar
Мастер
Moderator
Moderator
Злой Мудак
Mauerspecht
 
Posts: 20733
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:56 pm
Location: Far from Damascus

Re: Brexit Delay

Postby Heid the Ba » Fri May 24, 2019 1:56 pm

She was evil as Home Secretary, then stupid enough to take on the poisoned chalice after Pig Fucking Davie ran away. She then misread the country and called a snap general election losing her majority so she did a deal with the DUP. All this before she fucked up the Brexit negotiations. She has a bizarre mix of arrogance and masochism.
Get it up ye.
User avatar
Heid the Ba
Enlightened One
Enlightened One
Tree hugging, veggie, sandal wearing, pinko Euroweasel
Mr. Sexy Ass
 
Posts: 51598
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:20 pm
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Re: Brexit Delay

Postby Richard A » Fri May 24, 2019 2:04 pm

I'm with Heid the Ba on May's record as Home Secretary. Prevent (which earned her your nickname of IM Mai) and the hostile environment.

As for our system of proportional representation, it's a weird version. No single transferable vote. There are regional constituencies (in our particular case, East of England), each of which has a certain number of MEPs. Each party puts up a list of candidates in order of preference and each voter gets one vote - for a party. They then get a number of MEPs according to what proportion of the total vote they got. So if a given party gets, say, 3 MEPs, then nos. 1, 2 and 3 on that their list get elected.

Yes, a no-deal Brexit now looks depressingly likely. One of the Tory arch-Brexiteers was grinning about that on the news earlier.
Richard A
Armchair Skeptic
Armchair Skeptic
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 6:10 pm

Re: Brexit Delay

Postby Arneb » Fri May 24, 2019 3:37 pm

Fair points, Heid and Richard. Of course now that the Boris takes over, all the Euro weasels will come begging for a deal and the new PM will show them how an Empire negotiates.
Non sunt multiplicanda entia praeter necessitatem
User avatar
Arneb
Moderator
Moderator
German Medical Dude
God of All Things IT
 
Posts: 39655
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:22 pm
Location: Potsdam, Germany

Re: Brexit Delay

Postby Мастер » Fri May 24, 2019 4:01 pm

Arneb wrote:Of course now that the Boris takes over


You don't think he has learned the lesson from last time, be careful what you wish for?
Death seed, blind man's greed
Poets starving, children bleed
Nothing he's got he really needs
Twenty-first century schizoid man
User avatar
Мастер
Moderator
Moderator
Злой Мудак
Mauerspecht
 
Posts: 20733
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:56 pm
Location: Far from Damascus

Re: Brexit Delay

Postby Richard A » Fri May 24, 2019 5:38 pm

I've actually heard Owen Jones speak - but here he is at his best. Not one word of the article is untrue.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... g290u2_d7A
Richard A
Armchair Skeptic
Armchair Skeptic
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 6:10 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Current Events and Politics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron