Hitler

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Hitler

Postby Enzo » Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:27 am

Here in the USA at least, many people love to hop directly to Hitler as a comparison for someone they dislike. Someone wants to put up a stop sign, and the others accuse him of taking our freedoms, like Hitler. And to paraphrase Jon Stewart, that demeans the objects, demeans the arguments, and it even demeans Hitler.

I have an interest in WW2, and lately a lot of stuff has been on TV about it, much relating to Hitler. In fact right as I type, Logan 5 is narrating a show about Nazi Gold/Hitler's gold.

As I watch shows about the rise of Hitler I am drawn to the parallel with President Trump. I see more and more parallels. The latest was several states have decided to cancel primary elections this coming year - they feel Trump is all the candidate they need. To me this is a slippery slope, maybe they try to decide to cancel elections in general? Like the SS, Trump has demanded all his people swear loyalty to HIM. And he has fired so many until now he has a skeleton crew of toadys. (toadies?)

Hitler excused himself from taxes and amassed a fortune. Trump has made sure his hotels are used for government business. For example, VP Pence visited Dublin, but stays at a Trump resort 180 miles away on the other coast. And now we find out a recent routine military cargo plane flight instead of stopping at regular military bases en route, they stayed at a Trump resort in the UK. The crew said their per diem wouldn't even cover meals at the place it was too expensive.

Our immigration thugs are raiding factories and other places to round up and deport undocumented workers, but now lowest of the low, they have been scouring hospital records looking for children from other countries who came here for treatment at hospitals, and targeted them for deportation.

http://www.ktvu.com/news/ktvu-local-new ... eportation

It goes on and on.

He won't fill administration offices, prefers "acting" management. The Federal election committee had a retiree recently leaving them without a quorum, and no replacements. This means they can no longer start new investigations into election fraud and such.
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Re: Hitler

Postby MM_Dandy » Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:28 pm

Canceling primaries has been done before. Usually, the motive is to save money. Still doesn't make it right, though.

Not that it matters. California, for example, passed a tax disclosure law requiring candidates to release their tax returns in order to appear on the primary ballots. Should the law be upheld in the courts, the California GOP intends to circumvent this measure by leaving Trump off of the ballot, and then electing delegates at a special state party convention following the primary. Presumably, the convention would elect Trump delegates.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watc ... on-even-if
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Re: Hitler

Postby Arneb » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:46 pm

Like you, I don't think the comparison to Hitler is very helpful. The comparison with Hitler only gets interesting when the similarities end.

Donald Trump is precisely the power-hungry, dictatorial, authoritarian, narcissistic (and what have you) kind o pseudo popular Tribune the American Constitution was set up against with all its balance of power bells and whistles. The Constitution is aching, creaking and grinding under Tump's assault - but I think it will hold against the assault - except if Americans decide by election (even if its' probably a one-way ticket) to supplant liberal decocracy with tyranny. You can do it, no republic can survive on too few republicans (NOT wit a capital R). As one Ronald Reagan (certainly not in my political camp) put it: Tyranny is always just a generation away.

Hitler and any small time dictator like, say, Noriega, or would be autocrat like Trump, or big-time state hijacker like Putin always have a lot in common - all the things you describe. What they do not have in common is that Hitler determinedly prepared for and carried out a World War, determinedly had 6 million Jews and millions of other people deemed "unworthy of life" murdered, and that he Goddamn near reached his goal. Very few people beside him planned and prepared for that, and very, very few "succeeded" (Mao and Stalin, certainly; Pol Pot, Idi Amin, on smaller scales, possibly. I am sure you could name others).

They all have the "common trunk", the universal set of abilities that sets a tyrant apart: Foul political play, corruption, greed, cronyism, humiliating and at the same time rewarding weak and unprincipled characters (Rex Tillerson anyone?) are the basics on which to erect a tyranny. They are all like that, the Órbans, Kaczynskys, Putins, Netanyahus, Chavezes, Erdogans, Chameneis and Trumps of this world. In that sense, yes they all are "like Hitler". But they sit on the loo and blow farts, and so did Hitler, too. And so do I. What they don't do, or, if you like a dark cynical turn to it, what they haven't been able and willing to do (yet?) is the interesting part. Tyrants are a dime a dozen. They are all alike. If, how and where they can be stopped is the thing to look at.
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Re: Hitler

Postby MM_Dandy » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:20 pm

One thing he hasn't done is a purge. Or, not one en masse, at any rate. It's hard to tell if the turnover in his staff and cabinet is because he's a shitstain or if he's deliberately forcing them out or some combination of both. But the day that I see Trump sitting in the Senate with a cigar is the day that I'll buy all the guns and ammo I can afford. Of course, that's if Trump's purge would look like Hussein's. And I suppose that by then, it'll be too late.

I think that the major factor which limits Trump is that he doesn't have a strong group of believers with him. Stephen Miller is certainly one of those types, but it's not clear how much influence he has. Otherwise, his staff and cabinet consist of inept grifters, stans, and at least a few people willing to leak items of concern to the press for whatever reason.
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Re: Hitler

Postby Enzo » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:59 pm

Oh Miller, the Himmler of the bunch.

No en masse purges, but a continual purge going on. Used to be a running theme on the Rachel Maddow show, the ever growing list of high level firees. But the list has gotten so long, it just got clumsy.

I think the staff churn is partly because he is an asshole, a bully, but also, anyone who disagrees with him gets shown the door.
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Re: Hitler

Postby Arneb » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:32 pm

Exhibit #297: John Bolton, latest ex-National Security Adviser. You're lucky that National security Advisor is such a junior, unimportant post - it's no damage if the Prez plays around with it a bit.
Not that I am particularly sad about John Bolton becoming Just Another Right-Winger on Fox Foaming His Opinion again.
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Re: Hitler

Postby Arneb » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:36 pm

The strange thing that made Hitler's rise and staying power possible is that he had very, very capable, absolutely ruthless folks araound him who believed in him, without question, without hesitation, absolutely without any moral frameweork holding them back. Many had had failed careers, but quite a few were very efficient at the atrocities they committed. I suppose there needs to be an atmosphere in which these particular types can thrive, a sort of constant, rigorous and effective brain-washing.
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Re: Hitler

Postby Мастер » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:09 pm

Arneb wrote:Exhibit #297: John Bolton, latest ex-National Security Adviser. You're lucky that National security Advisor is such a junior, unimportant post - it's no damage if the Prez plays around with it a bit.
Not that I am particularly sad about John Bolton becoming Just Another Right-Winger on Fox Foaming His Opinion again.


Good old John "I never met a foreigner I didn't want to kill" Bolton
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Re: Hitler

Postby Arneb » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:52 pm

Yeah, that Bolton exactly.
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Re: Hitler

Postby Мастер » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:59 pm

Be seeing you!
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Re: Hitler

Postby Arneb » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:26 am

They really didn't have a lot in common. Trump, the America First isolationist who wants to close the ties to the shithole countries vs the Got a Bomb for Everyone regime-change fanaticist. Both racist assholes, admitted. But too different in their flavour. F.A.Z. wrote yesterday, those who hat both Bolton as much as they hate Trump may still come to miss him.

Remember the NYT article along the lines of Fear Not: Grownups are in the Room! How many of those are still left?
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Re: Hitler

Postby MM_Dandy » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:25 pm

HAhahahahaha!
Tucker Carlson hailed the firing Tuesday of White House National Security Adviser John Bolton, calling him a "man of the left" whose exit should be celebrated by young service members.


https://www.foxnews.com/media/tucker-ha ... f-the-left

I mean, Hillary was considered very hawkish for a "liberal", and while Obama was more of a hawk than he ever admitted, their ambitions pale in comparison to Bolton's. It's also worth noting that Hillary and Obama were centrists rather than liberals.
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Re: Hitler

Postby Lance » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:54 pm

I vaguely remember Tucker Carlson when he was on CNN and if I recall correctly I thought he was okay at the time. When did he suffer the Traumatic Brain Injury?
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Re: Hitler

Postby Blue Monster 65 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:22 am

When the first Fox paycheck came in.
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Re: Hitler

Postby Enzo » Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:33 am

Amen
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