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Maryland Woman With 184 Dead Cats Admits Neglect

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:56 pm
by Lance
Neglect?

Ya think?

Fox News wrote:Maryland Woman With 184 Dead Cats Admits Neglect

Wednesday, September 27, 2006

Associated Press


FREDERICK, Md. — A woman who was found living with more than 300 mostly dead cats pleaded guilty to 46 misdemeanor counts of neglect Tuesday, abruptly ending her trial on animal cruelty charges.

Patricia K. Nicholson, 51, of rural Mount Airy, entered the Alford plea after a lunch break following about 2 1/2 hours of testimony in Frederick County District Court. In an Alford plea, a defendant doesn't admit guilt but acknowledges the state has enough evidence to produce a guilty verdict.

Judge O. John Cejka, who presided at the bench trial, set sentencing for Nov. 29. Nicholson faces a maximum penalty of 11 years and four months behind bars plus a $46,000 fine, but Assistant State's Attorney Kirsten Brown said the state wouldn't object to a suspended jail sentence and three years of supervised probation, provided Nicholson gets psychiatric treatment and doesn't acquire or care for more animals.

Nicholson was found living in a house with 184 dead cats and 119 live ones, of which 46 had to be euthanized, according to court records and trial testimony. In return for her guilty plea to failing to provide adequate food, shelter and air to the 46 cats that were put down, prosecutors dropped 76 other counts of that offense and 122 misdemeanor counts of inflicting unnecessary pain and suffering.

"Someone who loves animals is supposed to take care of them, and she completely disregarded that," Brown said in her opening statement.

Defense attorney Raymond Carignan said Nicholson was a single woman who tried to rescue feral cats.

"She did the best she could to take care of these animals," Carignan said in his opening statement. But, Carignan said, "she tried to take care of more cats than she could."

Animal Control Officer Michael W. Douglas testified that when authorities entered Nicholson's home near Mount Airy Dec. 16, they found two refrigerators stuffed with cat carcasses and every flat surface covered with at least three inches of animal feces.

Amid reeking rooms filled with cat-carrier cages stacked six high, they found other remains — some in plastic containers lovingly labeled with names and death dates going back to 2001, and some decomposing in closets and atop the mattress on which Nicholson apparently slept.

"Every room was another horrific event," Douglas said.

He said Nicholson's water heater had broken and flooded the filthy kitchen floor, making a soup through which the officers waded to catch the skittish cats.

"The whole floor consisted of, like, walking through chili," Douglas said.

The officers also found three live dogs and one dead dog in the house, according to court records and testimony.

Veterinarian Brooke Loewenstein, who examined the live animals taken from Nicholson's home, described each one's ailments, including dehydration and infections of the eyes, ears, respiratory tract and skin. All the illnesses were consistent with living in squalid conditions, she said.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:23 pm
by Lonewulf
It's a sad situation. the people that collect hundreds of animals and take care of them have a serious psychological disorder.

Basically, they feel that urge to help animals out, and compulsively act out on that urge (so it's like an obsessive compulsive disorder). They just can't stop collecting the animals, and eventually it gets too much to bear and a lot of the animals die.

It's very very sad, especially sad because it's hard for some of them to see what they're doing wrong. :/

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:53 pm
by Dragon Star
I don't care what kind of excuse you put on that, it's fucking disgusting. Put her ass in prison for the rest of her life.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:25 am
by Lonewulf
So, uh, if she has a psychological disorder, we shouldn't try to help her? We should punish her by putting her in a hell-hole for the rest of her life?

This seems to be a common American idea nowadays. "She did something I perceive as wrong. MAKE HER SUFFER!"

Bleh, that's just as pathetic and disgusting.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:02 pm
by Lance
Oh, I don't know... What goes around, comes around.

Perhaps she would learn how wrong it is if she lived in those same conditions. Oh, wait, she did.

Never mind.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:08 pm
by Dragon Star
Lonewulf wrote:So, uh, if she has a psychological disorder, we shouldn't try to help her? We should punish her by putting her in a hell-hole for the rest of her life?


Help her? She isn't a 3 year old that needs to be told wrong from right, she is an adult and is FULLY responsible for her actions.

To answer your question, yes.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:36 pm
by Lonewulf
Dragon Star wrote:Help her? She isn't a 3 year old that needs to be told wrong from right, she is an adult and is FULLY responsible for her actions.


Oh, okay. Then there is no such thing as insanity, delusions, compulsions, addictions, or anything else, right? Everyone is FULLY capable of making reasonable decisions no matter what, right? And if they aren't, they should be PUNISHED in the strictest way possible, right?

Why the fuck would you think something like that?

Why don't you go tell Gillianren to stop taking her meds, because she obviously doesn't have a fuckin' mental illness, or if she does, there's no way to alleviate any actions caused by it except by sending her to jail for the rest of her life?

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:48 pm
by Dragon Star
That's just my point Wulf, she is on meds...she knows she has a problem and is fixing it herself. How can you possibly be a functioning human and not see that you are killing hundreds of Cats? Unless she was honestly and sincerely insane to the fullest degree, there is no justification for this. And if she was truly that insane then she wouldn't be able to function like the rest of us.

FTR, I consider mental institutions prisons as well.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:35 pm
by Lonewulf
Dragon Star wrote:That's just my point Wulf, she is on meds...she knows she has a problem and is fixing it herself.


Uh, okay... so everyone that is insane knows they are insane, and are able to put themself on meds, instead of needing psychiatric help to help them see that they're unreasonable.

That makes perfect sense. Yes. You seem to have a perfect grasp of the human mind, Dragon Star.

How can you possibly be a functioning human and not see that you are killing hundreds of Cats?


It's called INSANITY for a fuckin' reason.

"1. the condition of being insane; a derangement of the mind."

Dementia:

"severe impairment or loss of intellectual capacity and personality integration, due to the loss of or damage to neurons in the brain."

Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insanity

What you're basically trying to say, and not getting the paradox of it, is, "How can you possibly be a rational, insane human and not see that you are killing hundreds of cats?"

The point is she ISN'T rational. Do you really think that she fully intended to DELIBERATELY harm those cats? If so, do you have ANYTHING to back that up with, other than your personal ignorance and prejudice?

Unless she was honestly and sincerely insane to the fullest degree, there is no justification for this. And if she was truly that insane then she wouldn't be able to function like the rest of us.


Wouldn't collecting hundreds of cats and living in squallid conditions be considered "not functioning like the rest of us"?

FTR, I consider mental institutions prisons as well.


So there's no other therapies available? Like, say, medication?

Do you think that Gillianren could be fully functional in society without medication?

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:24 pm
by Dragon Star
Look, the bitch is nuts. Therefor, remover her ass from society. End story.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:25 pm
by Lonewulf
Dragon Star wrote:Look, the bitch is nuts. Therefor, remover her ass from society. End story.


Ah, okay. Don't try to help her, then, even if there are the means and methods to do so.

I'll remember that that's your stance on how to treat other humans for the future.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:36 pm
by Dragon Star
What else should you do? She admitted neglect, therefor she knew what neglect was, and knew it was wrong. She could have got help for herself and chose not too.

And again, where in the fuck are you getting that I don't want her to get help? MENTAL INSTITUTIONS GIVE HELP. It's what they do, my point is that she can do the same again, so therefor remove her from society. If she was young then I would say hold her for a long time and let her go, but she doesn't have a long time left after living in those conditions.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:45 pm
by Lonewulf
Dragon Star wrote:What else should you do? She admitted neglect, therefor she knew what neglect was, and knew it was wrong. She could have got help for herself and chose not too.


What, you think they walked right up to her and asked if she was being neglectful? She probably had to be convinced over a period of time. Hell, if you want to prove me wrong, go ahead; but you'll need a lot more than a fuckin' news article for me to decide that she should GO TO JAIL FOR LIFE.

She most likely to have been convinced, over a period of time.

And again, where in the fuck are you getting that I don't want her to get help? MENTAL INSTITUTIONS GIVE HELP.


You said GO TO JAIL FOR LIFE.

That's not help, that's sealing her away. GOING TO JAIL FOR LIFE doesn't help someone become a member of society, it just makes them a fuckin' drain on the system.

I think that the least she should go to a psychiatrist and get professional help, but not LOCKED AWAY FOR LIFE. That's an extreme punishment. Period, end of discussion.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:55 pm
by Dragon Star
I BEG YOU, QUOTE ME SAYING THAT I WANT HER TO GO TO JAIL FOR LIFE.


I SAID PRISON. I consider insane asylum's prisons because they practically serve the same cause of removing dangerous people from society. I didn't just say this for shits and giggles, I said it because it's want I mean and you just skim right over it saying that I want her in a concrete box for the rest of her life. In the mental institutions they GIVE THE PATIENTS HELP, how do you not get this? Is this unclear in any way? Am I speaking a different language?

Jesus Christ.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:11 pm
by Lonewulf
Dragon Star wrote:I BEG YOU, QUOTE ME SAYING THAT I WANT HER TO GO TO JAIL FOR LIFE.


I SAID PRISON. I consider insane asylum's prisons because they practically serve the same cause of removing dangerous people from society. I didn't just say this for shits and giggles, I said it because it's want I mean and you just skim right over it saying that I want her in a concrete box for the rest of her life. In the mental institutions they GIVE THE PATIENTS HELP, how do you not get this? Is this unclear in any way? Am I speaking a different language?

Jesus Christ.


How is sealing her away from society from the rest of her life the only way to "help" her? Are you a qualified expert that can make that diagnosis?

Psychiatrists also give patients help, but you haven't even considered that. Why? Do you assume that they can't help her? How can you make THAT diagnosis?

Can you back this up with expert testimony? Can you back this up with actual experience in the field of psychology/psychiatry?

Or was your comment of "SEND THE BITCH TO PRISON TO LIFE" just a gut reaction that you're still trying to justify?

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:35 pm
by Dragon Star
Lonewulf wrote: Are you a qualified expert that can make that diagnosis?

Psychiatrists also give patients help, but you haven't even considered that. Why? Do you assume that they can't help her? How can you make THAT diagnosis?

Can you back this up with expert testimony? Can you back this up with actual experience in the field of psychology/psychiatry?


Are you? Can YOU?

Let me get this right, you want to put her in a crazy house for a few months/years and just let her go so she can do the same again? What justification do you have for this? You want to give her some pills and say "we don't know for sure if you will, but take these and you can go home now"?

Do I have that right?

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:44 am
by Lonewulf
Dragon Star wrote:Are you? Can YOU?


No. The difference here is that I'm not pretending that I can. YOU are playing judge, jury, and psychological expert ALL IN ONE GO throughout this.

Let me get this right, you want to put her in a crazy house for a few months/years and just let her go so she can do the same again? What justification do you have for this? You want to give her some pills and say "we don't know for sure if you will, but take these and you can go home now"?


If a psychologist said that she could be put under supervision, be given medical treatment to help with her condition, and has someone that can help look after her -- would you still say, "I don't care. SEND HER TO PRISON FOR LIFE!"?

If so, what justification would you have?

You are not an expert. You act as if you are. You make declarations of how insanity does and does not work. you make proclamations of what her exact mental state is and is not, when you are not qualified to make those statements. Then you claim that the only best treatment is to lock her "in prison" for the rest of her life, when you do not know of any alternatives that could exist.

Me, I'm a lot more open minded about the situation. I know that we currently have treatments to help the insane without locking them away for the rest of their life. I know that you can still put someone under supervision without locking them away (usually a friend or a relative is good enough to do that). I know that there are alternatives, and I would rather let a jury or, more importantly, an expert or group of experts decide on what's best for her.

Not a kid who seems to have a one-sided view of things.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:57 am
by Dragon Star
If she did have someone living with her, then yes, I would agree with you. Otherwise I still stick to what I say.

I never claimed to be an expert, I am just voicing my opinion because I can. If I am wrong then so be it, do like you just did and prove me wrong. That's great!

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:26 am
by Lonewulf
Dragon Star wrote:If she did have someone living with her, then yes, I would agree with you. Otherwise I still stick to what I say.

I never claimed to be an expert, I am just voicing my opinion because I can. If I am wrong then so be it, do like you just did and prove me wrong. That's great!


It's my opinion that your opinions suck. ;)

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:01 am
by Dragon Star
Do you want a hug? I do...

:lol:

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:00 am
by I Am He
Ok Dragon Star, I think you should occupy the Ward right next to hers. Remember all those poor little Ants you stepped on, over the years?? What did they ever do to you?? They were only just trying to feed the Colony. Did you or did you not cause some Ants in the Colony to starve to death by stepping on those poor worker Ants, who were just doing their jobs?? Isn't that considered Mass Murder?? How many Flies & Mosquitoes have you swatted over the years...huh?? I say you should be dragged away in chains for your dastardly deeds. I bet at one time or other you even pulled some legs off of Grasshoppers too. I'm on to your type. :lol: :lol: :lol:

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:12 am
by Lonewulf
Er, comparing the suffering of cats to the lives of ants is pretty odd.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:45 am
by Dragon Star
Lonewulf wrote:Er, comparing the suffering of cats to the lives of ants is pretty odd.


Indeed, but I'm 90% sure he was joking.

I hope anyways. :P

PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:03 am
by St. Jimmy
Lonewulf wrote:
Dragon Star wrote:If she did have someone living with her, then yes, I would agree with you. Otherwise I still stick to what I say.

I never claimed to be an expert, I am just voicing my opinion because I can. If I am wrong then so be it, do like you just did and prove me wrong. That's great!


It's my opinion that your opinions suck. ;)


the band, Relient K wrote:Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong

PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 1:41 pm
by Lonewulf
1) Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong.
2) It's my opinion that everyone here (but me) is wrong, period.
3) My opinion cannot be said to be wrong, as it is my opinion.

Conclusion: Everyone here is wrong but me, even their opinions.