Clinton's Pardons

[Dragon Star]

Really - Clinton's 140 is dwarfed by Nixon's 204 at the end of his first term.

And that makes it okay?

[Lance]

Really - Clinton's 140 is dwarfed by Nixon's 204 at the end of his first term.

And that makes it okay?

No. It's okay simply because it is okay. It doesn't need anything to "make it okay". The only point was to demonstrate that Clinton was far from the most prolific at doing it.

[Dragon Star]

I understood the point, but I still get the feeling that he was trying to sugarcoat a burnt cookie.

If I may, what is the over all point for pardons in the world today? Seems like a far cry from important to me...why does it need to be excercised today?

[Lance]

Juries tend to convict innocent people.

"They wouldn't have arrested him if he didn't do anything wrong."

and

"Well, he might not have done this, but I'll bet he did something."

[Bill EE]

I understood the point, but I still get the feeling that he was trying to sugarcoat a burnt cookie.

If I may, what is the over all point for pardons in the world today? Seems like a far cry from important to me...why does it need to be excercised today?

I am not trying to "sugar coat" anything. My point is that the US Constitution gives the sole power to pardon or commute to the President. Presidents have been using this power in different ways but the trend has been and still is to pardon after the Presidental elections. Pardons are generally not looked on with favor by the public and tend to be used against people in an election. Clinton did nothing different that several other Presidents - if BT had done a list of several those presidents and argued about the unfairness of the practice I may have agreed with him. He did not.

This power is in the constitution as part of the general "checks and balances." It prevents a runaway Judicary from emprisoning people unjustly or for unwarranted periods of time. I agree a point may be made that the Congress has taken away a lot of that power with minimum sentencing but that is why it is there.

[Мастер]

Presidents have been using this power in different ways but the trend has been and still is to pardon after the Presidental elections. Pardons are generally not looked on with favor by the public and tend to be used against people in an election.

Hmm. So if you are a potential pardonee, I guess you really want to route for the incumbent going down. Otherwise, "four more years" :(

[Bill EE]

Presidents have been using this power in different ways but the trend has been and still is to pardon after the Presidental elections. Pardons are generally not looked on with favor by the public and tend to be used against people in an election.

Hmm. So if you are a potential pardonee, I guess you really want to route for the incumbent going down. Otherwise, "four more years" :(

Depends on the popularity of the President and how controversial your pardon would be. FDR didn't seem to care and pardon all over the year. Most Presidents wait unit the end of there term(s) and after the election to grant controversial pardons.

Sucks doesn't it.

[Enzo]

This might be of interest:

[Bill_Thompson]

"Last Minute" Presidential Pardons from: JURIST: Presidential Pardons Feature

Those are some good links.

Some careful study is called for.

It could be argued that the pardons, even the huge size of the pardons, amount to nothing at all.

On the other hand, Clintons last minute pardons were disproportionate.

There might even be an legal explaination for that as well

On the other hand, rosy and lengthy legalese documents can be written to expound the virtues of Scientology too. That does not make Scientology valid. The fact still remains that Clinton performed a record breaking number of pardons (at least one was of someone who did not even officially apply for a pardon) and at that time Clinton had been impeached because of obstruction of justice. Yes, impeached. No, not acquitted. Yes, obstruction of justice. No, not oral sex. Kenneth Starr had found that Bill Clinton and his friend Vernon Jordan had encouraged Monica Lewinsky to lie to lawyers for the Paula Jones case about her affair with Clinton to hide Clintons pattern of sexual behavior. That is obstruction of justice.

So even if technically and legally the pardons were ok, it is not uncalled for to say that they seem suspicious and are a piece of a puzzle that dos not piece together a good picture.

[Lance]

it is not uncalled for to say

It is also not uncalled for to say "Who really gives a rat's ass?"

I think some people are trying so hard to defend the current administration that they will resort to anything, regardless of how dishonest it is, to try and make Bush and the Boys look not as bad.

[Bill EE]

So even if technically and legally the pardons were ok, it is not uncalled for to say that they seem suspicious and are a piece of a puzzle that dos not piece together a good picture.

What puzzle - you started all this about him having a lot of pardon but historically he has not. You still cling to this notion that the timing and/or number and/or type of pardons is suspicious despite the evidence.

If this is a part of some strange puzzle please, Oh Wise One, bathe us in the glow of your superiour knowledge. What big plan did Clinton have by issuing pardons to bank robbers and drug dealers/runners that Bush did not? Are Clinton's bank robbers and drug dealers special ninjas who plan on forcing into a Democratic Hell? Did the first President Bush know this may be a problem and pardon his own group of Ninja Bank Robbers and Drug Dealers to stop them? Perhaps they Bush's people call themselves the League of Naughty Gentlemen and have nightly battles against the evil Mastermind Clinton and the big D's?

[Мастер]

Are Clinton's bank robbers and drug dealers special ninjas who plan on forcing into a Democratic Hell?

Ever see The Manchurian Candidate?

[Bill EE]

Are Clinton's bank robbers and drug dealers special ninjas who plan on forcing into a Democratic Hell?

Ever see The Manchurian Candidate?

I did - so do all of Clinton's pardoned people play cards and make love to their mothers?

[Мастер]

and make love to their mothers?

!! I must have fallen asleep for that part of the film :(

[Superluminal]

Another mysterious death of someone associated with Clinton, and one of his last minute pardonees.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/ ... 08441.html

[Bill EE]

and make love to their mothers?

!! I must have fallen asleep for that part of the film :(

You must be referring to the new film - in the original film (Korean War) there was an incest backstory.

[Мастер]

You must be referring to the new film - in the original film (Korean War) there was an incest backstory.

No, I'm thinking of the Frank Sinatra/Angela Lansbury (I didn't even know there was a new one). Either I've forgotten that part, or never picked up on it in the first place. . .

[Bill_Thompson]

[Lance]

Do you prefer an administration that abuses power from the very beginning?

[Bill_Thompson]

That is a laughable comment. Clinton's body count beats Bush's ten to one. Look at his action in Yugoslavia and his lack of action in Rwanda.

And look at the other books by Olsen if you want to see real abuses of power.

Hillary abused power her entire life. She kicked the staff out of the living quarters of the white house because someone leaked the Jerry Springer style fights she had with Bill.

But that is not even the worst of her abuse of power in controlling informaiton and the media.

And judging by your comment, IT WORKED. You have been duped.

The Clintons even went as far as getting Viacom to dub a speech she made where the crowed booed her and replacing it with cheers.

Fuck! Think about where you point your finger when you talk about abusing power.



This book outlines how Hillary fought the bloggers and online internet reporters during the Clinton years. It is accurate.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/custom ... e&n=283155

Look at Olsen's other books.

By the way, if Barbara Olsen were alive today Hillary wouldn't have a chance. She was the best and most accurate anti-Hillary reporter we had. But she was on flight 77 that flew into the Pentagon on a plan that germinated while Bill Clinton was busy getting his cock sucked.