Slappy bedded foes -- The Imus Debacle

[Мастер]

Radio is the advertising business, and if the remarks Imus makes impedes their ability to sell their products, the advertisers are free to pull their ads.

This is why I tend not to believe the various theories on conservative or liberal bias of the media, both of which have been expressed here at varying times. I tend to think that the media follow rather than lead public opinion, because their true bias is that they like making money better than not making money.

Of course, there are ideologically driven media outlets, but they are mostly small, and they still only get read/heard/seen if the public chooses to do so. Most of them are chasing market niches :P

A waiter is free to tell the patrons that the food here sucks, don't eat it, and the restauranteur is free to fire him for it.

Is this a hypothetical example, or would you like to fill us in on the details :P

[Lonewulf]

This is why I tend not to believe the various theories on conservative or liberal bias of the media, both of which have been expressed here at varying times. I tend to think that the media follow rather than lead public opinion, because their true bias is that they like making money better than not making money.

Of course, there are ideologically driven media outlets, but they are mostly small, and they still only get read/heard/seen if the public chooses to do so. Most of them are chasing market niches :P

Well, hold on, what level of biase are we talking about? CNN has always seemed to be, at the least, slightly more liberal, while Fox has always seemed to be slightly more conservative. They're not exactly extremist about it, but they certainly seem to have their own leanings. And it's not like they'd lose out too much there, as there are plenty of liberals and conservatives in America, but at the same time without going extremist, they can still serve the majority of people regardless.

But otherwise, yeah, I'd agree. They're mainly in it for the cash.

[MM_Dandy]

Stop being black, Enzo.

(Black means "stupid", by the way).

You go ahead and be as black as you want. Be blacker than night, I don't care. Be blacker than a goddamn nigger, and continue to be stupid. I don't care, and you won't comprehend that I'm being subsequently insulting to certain people by making this paragraph, naturally.

Watch your words, Lonewulf. You know better than to argue your point using such provocative statements and ad homs (even by substitution). If you want to insult Enzo, take it to Infuriati. If you want to emulate Mr. Imus, take a hike.

[Bill_Thompson]

Imus was just fired -- sort of. I wonder if the same would happen to a black man. Seriously.

[Bill_Thompson]

Only, it seems, after he goes around and grovels at the feet of Sharpton and Jessie Jackson. Otherwise he gets fired and becomes jobless.

So if I call my boss an asstard to his face, I shouldn't be fired?

That is up to the asstard. But I don't think Imus worked for hos. If he did and called them hos, then his bosses can do whatever they want. You can call other asstrards, asstards, but not your boss, usually.

[The Beer Slayer]

I really don't care. Imus is a crotchety assbag. He looks like an elderly Howard Stern dressed in a gimp suit. Imus was an idiot. Imus fired himself.

[Bill_Thompson]

I think so. If a brother said these things it would be blown off.

If he was a radio personality that set himself to portray a message? I'm skeptical of that claim.

Though tell me, Bill: What did these girls do to deserve the insult?

I guess they looked like nappy headed hos.

[Bill_Thompson]

I still think a black radio personality could get away with the exact same thing.

[hippietrekx]

Hell, I was called a "Slut 3000"

Excuse me, I have to go use the rank administration control panel

The temptation is amazing.

Wusses.

I love it.

[Lonewulf]

Watch your words, Lonewulf. You know better than to argue your point using such provocative statements and ad homs (even by substitution). If you want to insult Enzo, take it to Infuriati. If you want to emulate Mr. Imus, take a hike.

I was making a point.

Apparently, saying, "You're so black" where black means stupid instead of "black" is "making a provocative statement" and an "ad hominem".

But saying, "Stop being gay" is colloquial and perfectly acceptable, when the context has changed, and that context is equivalent to an insult, even a mild one. And I get criticized for not liking to hear it all the frikkin' time...

So...

Do you get it now?

That is up to the asstard. But I don't think Imus worked for hos. If he did and called them hos, then his bosses can do whatever they want. You can call other asstrards, asstards, but not your boss, usually.

Naturally, you miss the point.

His boss had every right to fire him. That's what you get in a free market. You love to profess how conservative you are, and part of conservatism is the free market economy; or do you disagree with that concept?

If I want to fire a worker, I'll fire them. Case closed. Don Imus was fired. He was not forced to leave his position by minority groups or by the government, he was fired by those that hired him. Do you understand this simple concept?

It doesn't matter if MSNBC collapsed under pressure from outside groups. As far as I know, they did not have a gun held to their head. They chose to collapse. Case closed.

I guess they looked like nappy headed hos.

Evidence?

I saw the team in photographs. None of them had nappy hair. Do you have evidence to the contrary?

Do you have any evidence that they look like prostitutes?

Do you have any evidence that Don Imus even saw them in a photograph? This is a radio show.

I still think a black radio personality could get away with the exact same thing.

That's nice.

[MM_Dandy]

Calling Enzo "stupid" is an ad hominem. You did this repeatedly in your post. Calling him "stupider" than a goddamn nigger is provocative. Whether or not you were making a point is irrelevant.

[Enzo]

He's trying to hammer me with his made up "what if" example.


But I am pretty stupid.

The waiter was allegorical, KOS. No swell story to report.

[Lonewulf]

Calling Enzo "stupid" is an ad hominem. You did this repeatedly in your post. Calling him "stupider" than a goddamn nigger is provocative. Whether or not you were making a point is irrelevant.

If I said he was gay, would that be better?

Alright, point taken.

He's trying to hammer me with his made up "what if" example.

Of course. If "black" was used as an insult, people would get upset. Yet, for some reason, it's perfectly fine to use "gay" to connote a negative. That's the point I'm making.

Ah well, I'll just give up on this.

[MM_Dandy]

But I am pretty stupid.

Oh. Well, in that case, I rescind my accusation of ad hom against Lonewulf. You have my apologies, Lonewulf.

Calling him gay wouldn't necessarily have been an insult, as long as you didn't say something else like (gay = <something insulting other than stupid>). Also, we should probably continue this discussion in that thread.

[Мастер]

This thread has been split into one for adults (which continues below), and one for small children here.

[Bill_Thompson]

Edited version:

Imus Calling Black Women "nappy headed hos": Wrong.

Jesse Jackson calling Jews "Hymies" and referring to New York as "Hymietown" : Right. (Washington Post, 1984)

Imus Calling Black Women "nappy headed hos": Wrong.

Jesse Jackson having an affair and Impregnating Karin Stanford, then using rainbow coalition funds to pay her $40,000 and purchasing a $365,000 house to keep her quiet: Right

Jesse Jackson not paying child support for this child, and not visiting her: Right

Jesse Jackson Saying Duke La Crosse Rape Suspects who have been aquitted "deserved the negative attention" because they weren't acting morally by hiring a stripper: Right

I'm glad we have someone with strong moral values like Jesse Jackson to make sure nobody makes racist jokes on radio stations!

Thanks for showing us what's right and what's wrong Jesse.

And who can forget Al Sharpton, another strong moral figure who knows the power of words:

After District Attorney Steven Pagones failed to prosecute white suspects for raping a black girl (because evidence showed the story was fabricated) Al Sharpton accused Pagones Himself of raping the girl. Pagones successfully sued him for Defamation. Right

But it gets better:

Imus Calling Black Women "nappy headed hos": Wrong.

In 1995, Sharpton led a protest in Harlem against the plans of Freddy's Fashion Mart, a Jewish-owned clothing store, to expand into a black neighborhood. Sharpton told the protesters, "We will not stand by and allow them to move this brother so that some white interloper can expand his business." Three months later, an armed protester forcibly entered the store and burned it down, killing himself and seven others. Right

Thanks Jesse and Al for showing us what's right and wrong. I'm glad we can finally see the light now. I'm glad you guys stopped this guy, and all his charities for sick and homeless children, that will now dry up. Thanks guys!

[Dragon Star]

...you know right from wrong? :?

[Bill_Thompson]

...you know right from wrong? :?

Do you? Or do you think "wrong" is when something is "gay"?

[Dragon Star]

No...wrong is queer, the other homosexual meat.

Imus fucked up, big deal, so what. People fuck up every day, the important thing is that no one take such a quackpot seriously. However, Bill is the exception here.

I yawn at this thread. Boo-hoo.

[Bandit]

Blacks do what Imus did all the time .. it's just not PC to call 'em on it. Right? Right.

Hypocrites...

[Мастер]

Blacks do what Imus did all the time .. it's just not PC to call 'em on it. Right? Right.

Hypocrites...

Who are the hypocrites? Are you referring to people (or specific people) at this board, the people publicly agitating for his firing, NBC, the other network (can't remember which one), someone else?

If you refer to the networks, they may just be perfectly rationally catering to the tastes of their audiences and advertisers, who are then the ultimate source of any hypocrisy that may exist in ths situation. . .

[Enzo]

ANd if you refer to the blacks who call each other nigger or other similar behaviors, there are indeed other blacks who call them on it. Notably Bill Cosby among others.

[Bill_Thompson]

Imus should have and could have had taken the high ground. He could have woken us all up. He could have opened our eyes. Sharpton and Jackson have done more harm than good for society. If they really cared they would not have let the rap music industry gotten away with destroying the self-esteem of black women in this country. If they really cared they would not have stood up to and stopped the spread of black-on-black crime which does harm to everyone by propping up the stereotype of black men in white cultures and circles.

But more importantly they would have used their influence to stop this stupid trend in inner city schools where young black men are considered to be sell-outs if they are academically successful because they are "wannabe's" and they are "acting white".

Imus could have gone on Sharpton's show and say "ok, what the fuck, I wasn't thinking... but I am glad to be on your show because I am thinking now and I get the chance to tell you to your face that if Martin Luther King was alive today he would be ashamed of you"

[Superluminal]

The Imus debacal has hurt business at my job. We sell electrical supplies, and one of our biggest customers was an Imus fan. We sell GE breakers and transformers. He has quit buying from us and told all the electricians that work for him not to get anything from us if they can get it at another store.

So, who do I thank for that, Imus, Jackson or Sharpton?

[Enzo]

Well best of luck.

I bet they get over it. Maybe they will stop accepting any parts that come by rail. After all, GE is one of the worlds largest makers of railroad locomotives.