Enzo wrote:The WHite House didn't have a consistent rationale, it changed week to week during the run up to the war.
Halcyon Dayz wrote:I still don't know what the White House's rational for the invasion was.
Sometimes I think they don't know themselves.
It was an extremely stupid thing to do, and that is not 20/20 vision hindsight.
Bill_Thompson wrote:Since the latest news seems positive, I am not so sure that is accurate.
So you don't think that war is necessary? Because if that is what your saying, you're nuts. You have to fight for freedom, and this is no secret.
war in the middle east was absolutely necessary in every way. It was a war there, or one here against a phantom enemy that would always be lost. Surely just because those of who don't live in the US can't be blind to this fact? Terrorists will stop at nothing but defeat, so we defeat them.
Halcyon Dayz wrote:Why it was stupid to invade Iraq:
Halcyon Dayz wrote:• It alienated existing and potential allies. The US went from an all time high in international sympathy to a possibly all time low
Halcyon Dayz wrote:• One does not eliminate a terrorist threat by military means alone. (Ask the Brits or the French.)
Halcyon Dayz wrote:• It made many members of the US public lose trust in their political system.
Halcyon Dayz wrote:• It tied up military and financial resources that would have been a lot more useful elsewhere.
Halcyon Dayz wrote:(How does one code for a [TAB]?)
Not everyone over there actually wants what we call democracy.
Several of the governments that did were voted out of office. :PKhrushchev's Other Shoe wrote:Definitely the Iraq war strained relations with US allies, and an administration with more finesse could have exploited post 11.09.2001 sympathies more skillfully. But, if one can expect the US to change its policies for the sake of keeping good relations with its allies, one could expect those allies to change their policies for the sake of keeping good relations with the US :PHalcyon Dayz wrote:• It alienated existing and potential allies. The US went from an all time high in international sympathy to a possibly all time low
That's how the war was sold to the American public by the jingo-media.Khrushchev's Other Shoe wrote:Very likely true, but I don't see why this is an argument against the war.Halcyon Dayz wrote:• One does not eliminate a terrorist threat by military means alone. (Ask the Brits or the French.)
:D IIRC, Introductory Economics (one year) was non-elective in my prep school, from the textbook by Arnold Heertje, who for some reason doesn't have his own page in en.wikipedia (but his son, the comedian does, go figure).Khrushchev's Other Shoe wrote:Halcyon Dayz! This is a great day!Halcyon Dayz wrote:• It tied up military and financial resources that would have been a lot more useful elsewhere.
[...]
By recognizing that that resources should be expended where they provide the greatest benefit, not just any benefit, you have rejected the principles of BAUT-nomics (the incorrect solution) and embraced the principles of microeconomics (the correct solution). Heid and I welcome you; you are one of us now! :P Bring more defectors with you!
Dragon Star wrote:Here is what I don't get and no one seems to discuss...enough of what you wouldn't do, but what would you do about it? Simply let it go and terrorists win? War with Arabia? I want to hear a concise, simplified plan, if you would.
Hindsight, whatever, what would you all do differently? HD, you provided good points, however what would you do about the problem?
"For some reason, the people I meet in my country are not the same as the ones I knew in the United States. A mysterious change seems to come over Americans when they go to a foreign land. They isolate themselves socially. They live pretentiously. They're loud and ostentatious. Perhaps they're frightened and defensive, or maybe they're not properly trained and make mistakes out of ignorance."
Halcyon Dayz wrote:Several of the governments that did were voted out of office. :P
Halcyon Dayz wrote:And it was not just the policies but also presentation.
'You're either with us or against us' and 'Freedom Fries' are not good way to make friends, or keep them.
Halcyon Dayz wrote:That's how the war was sold to the American public by the jingo-media.Khrushchev's Other Shoe wrote:Very likely true, but I don't see why this is an argument against the war.Halcyon Dayz wrote:• One does not eliminate a terrorist threat by military means alone. (Ask the Brits or the French.)
Apparently a majority of them still think there was a link between Hussein and islamist radicals, while in fact he was on there better-dead list.
Halcyon Dayz wrote:And of cause the Taliban are still very active in Afghanistan.
Khrushchev's Other Shoe wrote: :D IIRC, Introductory Economics (one year) was non-elective in my prep school, from the textbook by Arnold Heertje, who for some reason doesn't have his own page in en.wikipedia (but his son, the comedian does, go figure).
But in real life people learn budgeting the hard way.
It was only as an adult that I learnt that macaroni is supposed to come with ground beef, not diced spam as my mother used to make it. (Still like it that way though.)
Governments have a bit more leeway, they have good credit, part of what they spend domestically comes back as taxes, and they can even print some more, but a basic fact of life is that a buck can only be spend once.
Khrushchev's Other Shoe wrote:I remember that my beef with theory was that it presumes that people always make rational decisions that serve their interests the best.
That's not at all like the people I know.
Halcyon Dayz wrote:But I think that DON'T PANIC! is always good advise.
Halcyon Dayz wrote:It's traditional policies in the region are generally perceived to be Machiavellian, imperialistic, self-serving, and pro-Zionist.
Halcyon Dayz wrote:From the novel Ugly American :"For some reason, the people I meet in my country are not the same as the ones I knew in the United States. A mysterious change seems to come over Americans when they go to a foreign land. They isolate themselves socially. They live pretentiously. They're loud and ostentatious. Perhaps they're frightened and defensive, or maybe they're not properly trained and make mistakes out of ignorance."
The only way to make friends with people is by getting to know them.
Khrushchev's Other Shoe wrote:Halcyon Dayz wrote:It's traditional policies in the region are generally perceived to be Machiavellian, imperialistic, self-serving, and pro-Zionist.
Are the first and third characteristic supposed to be good or bad?
Halcyon Dayz wrote:The only way to make friends with people is by getting to know them.
Halcyon Dayz wrote:Proposition: Small-mindedness is the root of all evil.
Halcyon Dayz wrote:Proposition: Small-mindedness is the root of all evil.
Enzo wrote:The WHite House didn't have a consistent rationale, it changed week to week during the run up to the war.
Saddam had WMD
Saddam would not cooperate with the UN
Saddam was mean to his citizens
Saddam was somehow now magically more dangerous to the world than he had been during the last decade under out thumb
Saddam was an impediment to peace in the middle east
Saddam was denying democracy to his people
Saddam's oil would pay for the war and reconstruction
Saddam was somehow involved in 9/11
etc.
Heid the Ba' wrote:While Bush and Rice are still Cold Warriors
Heid the Ba' wrote:while al-Qaeda and the Taliban are fundamentalist Shia.
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